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Author Topic: Multi zone processor recommendation  (Read 8935 times)

eric lenasbunt

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Multi zone processor recommendation
« on: June 26, 2013, 10:07:16 am »

Hey guys, looking for product advice to replace an old (original model) Peavey media matrix.
 We no longer have any Windows 95 computers laying around and we need to make some adjustments.

I need to separate into a total of 13 zones (already have amps wired for this, just need to process). I need to properly delay and EQ each zone.
I would just go with something like a pair of DBX Driveracks, but I do need to be able to easily divide the system into 2 separate systems. (Air wall divider)

Any recommendations on product and a simple way to set it up for the volunteers. I was thinking 2 presets, 1 for whole system, 1 for 2 systems. (When divided that way 5 zones make up one system, 8 zones on the other.)

I am sure I left out details.

Thanks!
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Brad Weber

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Re: Multi zone processor recommendation
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2013, 11:00:18 am »

I need to separate into a total of 13 zones (already have amps wired for this, just need to process). I need to properly delay and EQ each zone.
I would just go with something like a pair of DBX Driveracks, but I do need to be able to easily divide the system into 2 separate systems. (Air wall divider)
So 13 inputs directly to 13 outputs or does the processor need to handle other related input or signal mixing and/or routing?
 
How do you address any other related aspects of the operable partition operation such as lighting, thermostats/HVAC, projection, etc.?  Is there some devices that provides, or can provide, indication of the partition status to other systems or do you address each system individually?
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Jason Lavoie

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Re: Multi zone processor recommendation
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2013, 11:39:32 am »


Any recommendations on product and a simple way to set it up for the volunteers. I was thinking 2 presets, 1 for whole system, 1 for 2 systems. (When divided that way 5 zones make up one system, 8 zones on the other.)

I'm having trouble picturing how one airwall has 5 zones on one side and 8 zones on the other.. unless there are many airwalls but only one main one that you care about? or is it one zone on each side plus several auxiliary but related zones?

And I have the same questions as Brad.. do you have inputs for each of the 13 zones, or are you talking about just routing a radio at potentially 13 different volumes?
There is no way to choose appropriate hardware (let alone the best solution) without knowing what all of the inputs and outputs are and what the purpose of each zone is.

Jason
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eric lenasbunt

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Multi zone processor recommendation
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2013, 01:35:54 pm »

So 13 inputs directly to 13 outputs or does the processor need to handle other related input or signal mixing and/or routing?
 
How do you address any other related aspects of the operable partition operation such as lighting, thermostats/HVAC, projection, etc.?  Is there some devices that provides, or can provide, indication of the partition status to other systems or do you address each system individually?

The other systems are independent. The lobby feed also runs through a separate distribution amp, so using a matrix from the board makes sense.

I only really need to process 6 outputs.
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eric lenasbunt

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Multi zone processor recommendation
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2013, 01:38:21 pm »

I'm having trouble picturing how one airwall has 5 zones on one side and 8 zones on the other.. unless there are many airwalls but only one main one that you care about? or is it one zone on each side plus several auxiliary but related zones?

And I have the same questions as Brad.. do you have inputs for each of the 13 zones, or are you talking about just routing a radio at potentially 13 different volumes?
There is no way to choose appropriate hardware (let alone the best solution) without knowing what all of the inputs and outputs are and what the purpose of each zone is.

Jason

The room is basically 3 sections, LCR off the board, aux fed subs.
The L side ends up on one side of the air wall the CR on the other. They have an Auto mixer input on the L side and that feeds into the Matrix mixer. That would be one input on the processor. The board feeds from the main console would be the other inputs.

Does that make sense?
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eric lenasbunt

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Multi zone processor recommendation
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2013, 01:48:22 pm »

The current system has the old matrix processor which has presets on the front to separate or combine the systems.

So one system is driven by an auto mixer for 5 zones. The other 8 zones are then driven only by the main FOH consoles LCR outs.
Then all 3 zones are also controlled by LCR when switched to the "combined" preset at the processor.

Currently the input gain is jacked way to high and the zones need to be properly delayed from front to back.

I am thinking we can get this done with 2 Ashley 4.8SP units. I would just need to set up 2 presets on the processors for the two configurations. I am feeling good about the solution at this point on the day, but someone on here always thinks of something I didn't/wouldn't.

Also, maybe someone knows of a better product for the solution.

Budget is not super hard, but pretty low, like trying to stay at or under $3k for the hardware.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Multi zone processor recommendation
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2013, 08:14:10 pm »

There are all sorts of different processors available-and much better than "strapping" a couple of smaller units together.

Do you need to be able to switch programs via a computer or switch contacts-or front panel access?

As with anything-it is important to properly address the real needs-before deciding what would be the best approach.
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David Sturzenbecher

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Multi zone processor recommendation
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2013, 10:18:51 pm »

Forget the fixed architecture platforms for starters. BSS Soundweb, Media Matrix Nion, QSCQsys, and many offerings from Biamp should be reviewed based on your exact needs. I'm sure there are others.
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jason misterka

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Re: Re: Multi zone processor recommendation
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2013, 10:46:08 pm »


I am thinking we can get this done with 2 Ashley 4.8SP units. I would just need to set up 2 presets on the processors for the two configurations. I am feeling good about the solution at this point on the day, but someone on here always thinks of something I didn't/wouldn't.

Also, maybe someone knows of a better product for the solution.

Budget is not super hard, but pretty low, like trying to stay at or under $3k for the hardware.

May not be a perfect fit but look at Ashly NE 24.24M loaded 8x16.  Quality build, sound good, and easy software.  Should fit your budget.

You can install one of several styles of remote controls to change presets without a computer.

Jason
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eric lenasbunt

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Multi zone processor recommendation
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2013, 11:40:07 pm »

There are all sorts of different processors available-and much better than "strapping" a couple of smaller units together.

Do you need to be able to switch programs via a computer or switch contacts-or front panel access?

As with anything-it is important to properly address the real needs-before deciding what would be the best approach.

Front panel or remote access would be best to be able to do a simple push button change between the two systems and one.  Computer access will not be needed beyond my initial setup.
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eric lenasbunt

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Multi zone processor recommendation
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2013, 11:42:48 pm »

Forget the fixed architecture platforms for starters. BSS Soundweb, Media Matrix Nion, QSCQsys, and many offerings from Biamp should be reviewed based on your exact needs. I'm sure there are others.

I was having trouble finding any of these in my budget range. The Ashley mentioned below was the closest.

Any specific ideas near budget would be appreciated.

And I would love to have a deeper understanding of what the down side to fixed architecture would be, if anyone has time to enlighten me. (I am being genuine here, not a smart ass, just to be clear)
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eric lenasbunt

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Multi zone processor recommendation
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2013, 11:44:00 pm »

May not be a perfect fit but look at Ashly NE 24.24M loaded 8x16.  Quality build, sound good, and easy software.  Should fit your budget.

You can install one of several styles of remote controls to change presets without a computer.

Jason

This was my first choice but I was concerned with no front panel access. A remote option may be the ticket though.
Thanks
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eric lenasbunt

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Multi zone processor recommendation
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2013, 02:43:38 pm »

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. Looks like we will be using an Ashley Protea Matrix 24.24 unit with a wall mounted remote switch to switch scenes. I think I am now on the right track and I am grateful for all of your comments (never want to say feedback)
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duane massey

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Re: Multi zone processor recommendation
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2013, 09:12:47 pm »

Symetrix Jupiter series?
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Tom Bourke

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Re: Multi zone processor recommendation
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2013, 11:22:14 pm »

Hey guys, looking for product advice to replace an old (original model) Peavey media matrix.
 We no longer have any Windows 95 computers laying around and we need to make some adjustments.

I need to separate into a total of 13 zones (already have amps wired for this, just need to process). I need to properly delay and EQ each zone.
I would just go with something like a pair of DBX Driveracks, but I do need to be able to easily divide the system into 2 separate systems. (Air wall divider)

Any recommendations on product and a simple way to set it up for the volunteers. I was thinking 2 presets, 1 for whole system, 1 for 2 systems. (When divided that way 5 zones make up one system, 8 zones on the other.)

I am sure I left out details.

Thanks!
I have used various products to do this sort of thing. http://www.penton-usa.com/products/dsp/uapg2.php Biamp audia, or Rane install stuff

Many install units have inputs for pots and dry contacts or other logic level IO.  Many times I use these with switches mounted on blank wall plates or rack plates. Each company also have premade wall switches and encoders.
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Brad Weber

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Re: Multi zone processor recommendation
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2013, 07:29:02 am »

And I would love to have a deeper understanding of what the down side to fixed architecture would be, if anyone has time to enlighten me. (I am being genuine here, not a smart ass, just to be clear)
The downside is that it is fixed.  If the processing and routing defined supports what you want or need then it is not a problem, if it doesn't then you can't make it work.
 
Open architecture processors typically offer many more options in terms of the processing possible.  Simple mixers and automixers as well as matrix switchers and matrix mixers.  Various EQ and dynamics processing that can be placed anywhere in the signal chain, you can usually even define the amount and type of EQ - want 7 bands of parametric EQ rather than 5 bands or to swap between graphic and parametric EQ and you can usually make that change.  You can often use the processing algorithms available to create more complex processors, for example using filters and compressors to create multiband compressors or limiting and delay to create a look-ahead limiter.  You can sometimes create macros from multiple processors, say using a gate, compressor, EQ, de-esser, etc. to create a channel strip macro, which you can then treat as an available processing device.  You can usually insert level controls or meters anywhere in the signal chain.  You probably get the general point that an open architecture processor typically allows a much greater level of capability and flexibility in the processing and routing happening inside the box.
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Chan Xiang Ju

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Re: Multi zone processor recommendation
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2013, 05:25:33 am »

Symetrix Radius + XOut 12 Dante Breakout

Works like a charm with lots of flexibility. 12 Mic/Line Inputs + 8 output on the radius and another 12 out via dante from the radius. Though you may be hitting close to max processing power depending on how u design the DSP. Furthermore ARC-Web built in means u can deploy it wireless on any smartphone or computers for control.

SymVue also allows u to have terminals all around if need be.
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Steven Barnes

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Re: Multi zone processor recommendation
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2013, 03:51:28 pm »

This was my first choice but I was concerned with no front panel access. A remote option may be the ticket though.
Thanks

There is one button on the front of an Ashly ne24.24m that is a preset recall (it can be disabled if needed), If preset recall is all that you need you will not need any sort of remote with it.



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Josh Millward

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Re: Multi zone processor recommendation
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2013, 05:23:03 pm »

Hey guys, looking for product advice to replace an old (original model) Peavey media matrix.
 We no longer have any Windows 95 computers laying around and we need to make some adjustments.

I need to separate into a total of 13 zones (already have amps wired for this, just need to process). I need to properly delay and EQ each zone.
I would just go with something like a pair of DBX Driveracks, but I do need to be able to easily divide the system into 2 separate systems. (Air wall divider)

Any recommendations on product and a simple way to set it up for the volunteers. I was thinking 2 presets, 1 for whole system, 1 for 2 systems. (When divided that way 5 zones make up one system, 8 zones on the other.)

I am sure I left out details.

Thanks!
Hi Eric,

Is there some reason you do not want to use a new version of MediaMatrix? The newest NION nE is quite cost efficient if you do not need CobraNet or Dante and just want the analog I/O. Even with CobraNet or Dante, it is still very competitively priced when compared to everything else.

Having the system combine and uncombine spaces is very simple, especially if you are moving air walls into place to separate the rooms. You can use industrial magnetic reed switches similar to what is used in the security industry to trigger the GPIO to select between combined and uncombined states.

Please feel free to get in touch if you have questions or comments.

Thanks!
Josh
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Craig Hauber

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Re: Multi zone processor recommendation
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2013, 12:55:23 am »

There is one button on the front of an Ashly ne24.24m that is a preset recall (it can be disabled if needed), If preset recall is all that you need you will not need any sort of remote with it.

You can also just mount up to 2 of their contact-closure preset recall remote (WR-2) in the rack next to the processor itself if you just want to "augment" the front panel controls.  (or just use the costlier but more versatile neWR-5)
Since the unit has 8 built-in preset recall terminals you can even retrofit existing buttons that the client may already be familiar with using.

From what I've determined, the 24.24 is probably the best bang-for-the-buck in system DSP's and even though it's fixed, it is perfect for the restaurant, bar and hospitality industries (or any other penny-pinching client).  The sound quality is excellent and I think far exceeds what you would expect for it's price-point.

-And it's not all that "fixed" either when compared to a ZonePro or Digitool (and those are great units too and work well for many applications)
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Tim Padrick

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Re: Multi zone processor recommendation
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2013, 01:00:19 am »

Look at the Rane HAL system as well.  http://www.rane.com/contractors.html#
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Chuck Fudge

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Re: Multi zone processor recommendation
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2013, 11:39:00 am »

I have a number of lectrosonic units in use with no issues.
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Jimmy Wright

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Re: Multi zone processor recommendation
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2013, 06:57:43 pm »

BiAmp AudiaFLEX is the industry standard way to go.
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