Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[David Parker]

Hey Dave,

What advantage is there to having one ear bud out?

Other than the very real danger of hearing damage, there are other issues that people that do this are attempting to solve:

• They don't trust the FOH engineer to mix things well and want to hear for themselves and adjust their own instrument volume themselves in response to what they hear with one ear.
• They don't like the mix they are getting in the IEM's
• The IEM's irritate their ears

[li]The musician just likes hearing their rig while gigging
[/li][/list]

Point by point:

1)  Nearly ANY FOH engineer is going to mix better out front than the best trained FOH engineer could do standing where the lead player is.  Anyone that things differently is simply not in touch with reality.

2)  While it may be true that a one-size-fits-all IEM mix (without "more me" options) may well leave some of the band members unable to hear themselves adequately, multiple mixes can absolutely provide a superior mix than any open air mix would provide.

3)  Custom ear molds are much more comfortable and for bands that play frequently, these should be a must.

4)  Can't really do much for these people.  They really just want to hear that JCM900 in its pure, unadulterated form.  No IEM is going to sound like that.

On this point, I would say that the musician is being selfish.

It is much easier to stay tight with the rest of the band when you can actually hear the rest of the band.  If the lead player has his head buried in front of his tube amp speaker, it is unlikely he hears very much of anything else but his guitar.

I had a lead guitarist like this once.  We took a sidebar in a song and he was so absorbed with his guitar that he kept playing the song in a completely different place than the rest of the band.  The entire rest of the band had to quickly adjust and do what he was doing since he simply had no clue where we had gone since he obviously couldn't hear any of the rest of us.

I am certainly not saying a band can't sound good by having one bud out.  I am simply questioning what possible advantage there really is to doing it.

everybody I work for gets their own mix, one of my clients has two mixes, on in ear and one in his wedge. He goes back and forth between the in ear and wedge, sometimes one in sometimes one out. I don't question what he does, only that he is happy with what I send him.

When I was leading worship with in ear monitoring, I'd leave one out so I could feel the audience. Ambience mics are nice, but were not an option.

Whatever works. You can't put musicians in a box and tell them all to like the same thing and do it the same way. I am in a service oriented business. If I don't please the customer, I don't work. I make suggestions and the client can either accept or reject them. I turn work down, because I have more than I want, because I understand my place in all of this, a paid servant. It's not about me until the end of the night when I get paid.

[Scott Bolt]

everybody I work for gets their own mix, one of my clients has two mixes, on in ear and one in his wedge. He goes back and forth between the in ear and wedge, sometimes one in sometimes one out. I don't question what he does, only that he is happy with what I send him.

When I was leading worship with in ear monitoring, I'd leave one out so I could feel the audience. Ambience mics are nice, but were not an option.

Whatever works. You can't put musicians in a box and tell them all to like the same thing and do it the same way. I am in a service oriented business. If I don't please the customer, I don't work. I make suggestions and the client can either accept or reject them. I turn work down, because I have more than I want, because I understand my place in all of this, a paid servant. It's not about me until the end of the night when I get paid.

I can't help but agree with these statements.  At the end of the day, being a soundman is mostly about keeping the direct customer happy.  It is absolutely a service industry and therefore, the customer is always right.

I also agree that IEM's can make musicians feel detached from the audience and/or their own music. 

As I stated, I actually had a drummer who hit harder (too hard even) because he could not tell how loud he was acoustically with the IEM's in and was mentally trying to compensate.

I think that IEM's are used more and more these days.  I have been using them for ~10-15 years now, but as bar bands go, there are by far more bands that use wedges than bands that use IEM's.

I think that things are moving in that direction, and bands are slowly getting better at using the technology, but there are still lots of bands out there that either wont use them at all, or use them in parallel with wedges and ambient.

I apologize for coming off so strong on this subject.  I sometimes forget that most people here aren't running their own sound.  They are providing it for others.  It really makes a huge difference when you look at it from that perspective.

@Samuel Reese,

A series of ambient mics and duckers can help with that. Expensive and complex though. How about these Ultimate Ears plugs with the "ambient" feature? Anyone tried those on artists like this?

I haven't used them, but it sounds interesting.

I have heard of using an ambient mic as part of the IEM mix as well.  Still hard to imagine a lead player buying into IEM's if he wants to get "his tone" on his JCM900 [/list]

[David Parker]

I can't help but agree with these statements.  At the end of the day, being a soundman is mostly about keeping the direct customer happy.  It is absolutely a service industry and therefore, the customer is always right.

I also agree that IEM's can make musicians feel detached from the audience and/or their own music. 

As I stated, I actually had a drummer who hit harder (too hard even) because he could not tell how loud he was acoustically with the IEM's in and was mentally trying to compensate.

I think that IEM's are used more and more these days.  I have been using them for ~10-15 years now, but as bar bands go, there are by far more bands that use wedges than bands that use IEM's.

I think that things are moving in that direction, and bands are slowly getting better at using the technology, but there are still lots of bands out there that either wont use them at all, or use them in parallel with wedges and ambient.

I apologize for coming off so strong on this subject.  I sometimes forget that most people here aren't running their own sound.  They are providing it for others.  It really makes a huge difference when you look at it from that perspective.

@Samuel Reese,I haven't used them, but it sounds interesting.

I have heard of using an ambient mic as part of the IEM mix as well.  Still hard to imagine a lead player buying into IEM's if he wants to get "his tone" on his JCM900 [/list]

two of the bands I work for are 100% in ear monitoring.  Most of the places they play have small stages, no room for wedges. They know they will sound MUCH better with a quieter stage, and IEM's make that possible. They have now given up their guitar amps in favor of POD units. A lot less equipment to haul around, and much better on small stages. Playing bar gigs is a balance between having fun and making money. If it isn't fun, the money isn't enough. So leaving the half stack at home and relying on ear buds is a leap of faith. Makes it awesome for me, I have their settings stored in my digital mixer, and I rarely do a sound check with them. A quick line check, and they go get into costume. Without in ear monitoring, this would be much more difficult. Other bands can't make the change. It just doesn't work for them. So be it, I have wedges.

[Tom Burgess]

I've not had much luck with the Shure 200 Series either although I think in a low volume environment like an acoustic duo or somesuch they'd probably work just fine. 

I do have a client that I set up with 4 AKG IVM4500's in a rack.  Love love love the system but the stock earbuds were terrible.  Switched them to Shure SE425's and the world is now a MUCH better place.  The fit kit that comes with the Shures seem to be a little hit and miss, they work great for some folks and not so well for others.  Personally I prefer the foam, probably since I used to use foam earplugs when I was doing the rock-n-roll drum thing, that and if I'm using in-ears on a flight, they leak just enough so my ears can adjust to the pressure changes.

[David Parker]

I've not had much luck with the Shure 200 Series either although I think in a low volume environment like an acoustic duo or somesuch they'd probably work just fine. 

I do have a client that I set up with 4 AKG IVM4500's in a rack.  Love love love the system but the stock earbuds were terrible.  Switched them to Shure SE425's and the world is now a MUCH better place.  The fit kit that comes with the Shures seem to be a little hit and miss, they work great for some folks and not so well for others.  Personally I prefer the foam, probably since I used to use foam earplugs when I was doing the rock-n-roll drum thing, that and if I'm using in-ears on a flight, they leak just enough so my ears can adjust to the pressure changes.

I think the limiters on the shure 200 series are set a little low. That's why more sensitive buds are so important with them. They also clip easily. Some of the people I work with THINK they need more volume than they actually do. After they get settled into the set, they realize that they can hear just fine.

[Tim McCulloch]

Hi Ted-

The problems seem very much related to 2 things:  improper fit of the IEM unit and low transducer sensitivity relative to the output of the receiver pack.  There could be issues on the transmit side, too, but those are beyond my speculation.

I will say that I was totally unimpressed with stock IEM units and then made the assumption that all IEMs below the vaunted top lines were shit and unacceptable.  Then I bought my own "buds" (Westone single driver models) for use when traveling.  With them I figured out the ear canal seal (I have very narrow canals).  Wow.  Night and day difference in that application so I tried them with a Senny G2 unit.  Your band really needs to work on getting a good seal.  Keep a supply of the foam tips (Comply is one brand) and the 3 flange silicone rubber tips (you can trim them if needed).  It will take a couple hours of use for the musos to find the tips that work best for them, but it will be worth it.

As for sensitivity, there is no changing it.  If the bud will take more voltage that the pack will not deliver you need to find different buds or more robust AF.  Slamming the transmitter will not help.

Good luck, and let us know how this works out.

[Scott Bolt]

Hi Ted-

The problems seem very much related to 2 things:  improper fit of the IEM unit and low transducer sensitivity relative to the output of the receiver pack.  There could be issues on the transmit side, too, but those are beyond my speculation.

I will say that I was totally unimpressed with stock IEM units and then made the assumption that all IEMs below the vaunted top lines were shit and unacceptable.  Then I bought my own "buds" (Westone single driver models) for use when traveling.  With them I figured out the ear canal seal (I have very narrow canals).  Wow.  Night and day difference in that application so I tried them with a Senny G2 unit.  Your band really needs to work on getting a good seal.  Keep a supply of the foam tips (Comply is one brand) and the 3 flange silicone rubber tips (you can trim them if needed).  It will take a couple hours of use for the musos to find the tips that work best for them, but it will be worth it.

As for sensitivity, there is no changing it.  If the bud will take more voltage that the pack will not deliver you need to find different buds or more robust AF.  Slamming the transmitter will not help.

Good luck, and let us know how this works out.

Great points.  A good seal and decent ear buds make a world of difference.

[ProSoundWeb Community]