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Author Topic: Digital Snake that is hissing (need to eliminate)- Behringer S16  (Read 15761 times)

Samuel Rees

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Digital Snake that is hissing (need to eliminate)- Behringer S16
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2013, 02:38:08 pm »

One of these on stage takes 16 analog inputs:



Which connects to another one at FOH via AES50:



You get 8 analog outputs from the FOH S16.

Then you have an ADA8000 at FOH which gets its 8 inputs from the ADAT outputs on the FOH S16:


Then you get 8 more analog outputs from the ADA8000.

The analog console gets 16 inputs from the 8 analog outputs on the ADA8000 as well as the 8 analog outputs on the S16.

And yes, it is an overly complicated way to do it. If they simply made a version of the S16 with 16 analog outputs you could skip the ADA8000.

Thank you for the step by step breakdown! I follow now.
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Lee Buckalew

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Re: Digital Snake that is hissing (need to eliminate)- Behringer S16
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2013, 02:53:00 pm »

It seems to me that, in my cursory observation of the X32 threads, Behringer has come out and actually stated that shielded cable is either recommended or required for noise-free connections.

There has been no hissing related noise issue that I am aware of due to shielding or lack thereof.  The noise related to shielding problems has seemed to be a clicking or popping sound.  When I have experienced hissing (like the sound of a mic pre gained too high) it has been due to improper routing causing a bussing problem.

Certainly does not mean that there may not be other possible causes too.

Lee
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Lee Buckalew
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Re: Digital Snake that is hissing (need to eliminate)- Behringer S16
« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2013, 03:04:36 pm »

There has been no hissing related noise issue that I am aware of due to shielding or lack thereof.  The noise related to shielding problems has seemed to be a clicking or popping sound.  When I have experienced hissing (like the sound of a mic pre gained too high) it has been due to improper routing causing a bussing problem.

Certainly does not mean that there may not be other possible causes too.

Lee

Yes, you are correct.  I just checked and it was indeed the "clicking and popping" phenomenon that was shield-related.
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Digital Snake that is hissing (need to eliminate)- Behringer S16
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2013, 03:13:22 pm »

There has been no hissing related noise issue that I am aware of due to shielding or lack thereof.  The noise related to shielding problems has seemed to be a clicking or popping sound.  When I have experienced hissing (like the sound of a mic pre gained too high) it has been due to improper routing causing a bussing problem.

Certainly does not mean that there may not be other possible causes too.

Lee

I nature everything makes hiss. Complaints about too much hiss is generally caused by improper gain structure, inputs turned up with no mic, etc. .

JR

PS: I have actually seen hiss picked up by an unshielded input before but it was a rather obscure case where it picked up a very HF square wave (from a nearby oscillating circuit) that was rectified by the slower input circuitry leaving behind a noise like signature from the square wave's modulation... Think of this like a radio receiver picking up dead air from a crude radio transmitter, but like I said very obscure so an exception to, not the rule. 
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Lee Buckalew

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Re: Digital Snake that is hissing (need to eliminate)- Behringer S16
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2013, 03:22:19 pm »

I nature everything makes hiss. Complaints about too much hiss is generally caused by improper gain structure, inputs turned up with no mic, etc. .

Yes, I realize but this was an "Oh my god, what did these people buy?  This is going to be completely unacceptable..." sort of a hiss without any gain being adjusted, etc.  The level did not vary with gain/trim adjustments, etc. 
I discovered that I had misunderstood the patching and it seems, though my memory is not what it used to be according to my kids, that I had patched an S16 back to itself.  I think that in my case it had to do with patching outputs but I can't swear to that.
Amazingly, following the manual through patching showed me the error of my assumptions :-)

Lee
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Sidney.Pilien

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Re: Digital Snake that is hissing (need to eliminate)- Behringer S16
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2013, 10:33:21 pm »

Yes, I have an ADA8000 board side. It has already been synced with the S16, and we are getting sound through. Is wordclock any different?

The S16 network link LEDs should be green. If so, clock is ok. Try disconnecting one input at a time at the snake and ADA outs to see if one of the channels is bad at either end.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2013, 10:51:40 pm by Sidney Pilien »
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Samuel Rees

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Digital Snake that is hissing (need to eliminate)- Behringer S16
« Reply #26 on: June 14, 2013, 12:08:29 am »

I suppose this doesn't matter.... but has the OP explained why they ditched a 16 channel multicore to an analog desk for this strange beast?
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Tommy Peel

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Digital Snake that is hissing (need to eliminate)- Behringer S16
« Reply #27 on: June 14, 2013, 01:20:39 am »

I suppose this doesn't matter.... but has the OP explained why they ditched a 16 channel multicore to an analog desk for this strange beast?

It definitely seems like a complicated and expensive solution to whatever the problem was. I will say that, as someone who regularly deals with a 16x4x100 analog snake, being able to run a single cat5 from the stage to FOH to handle all the audio sounds really appealing, but I won't be making that leap until I have a digital board too(probably an x32 compact or producer). I'm very surprised that behringer bothered to build a standalone capability into the s16 to begin with; I would rather them knock the price down some and ditch the standalone BS.


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« Last Edit: June 14, 2013, 01:22:18 am by Tommy Peel »
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Brad Weber

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Re: Digital Snake that is hissing (need to eliminate)- Behringer S16
« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2013, 06:47:09 am »

I suppose this doesn't matter.... but has the OP explained why they ditched a 16 channel multicore to an analog desk for this strange beast?
Not that it really matters, however I can see a porta-church possibly preferring to deal with one CAT cable rather than a multipair snake.
 
This topic reminds me of the first time I heard the Roland digital snake.  It was at a trade show and they had a demo with a REAC digital snake and an analog snake side-by-side with the sources split to both so that you could listen on headphones and switch between the two.  The factory rep extolled the sound quality of their system while I listened to the analog snake and then switched to the digital snake only to hear noise, distortion and just generally a crappy signal.  Apparently someone demonstrating the control software had misadjusted things and then left it that way without others working in the booth realizing what had happened or how bad it sounded.
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Lee Buckalew

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Re: Digital Snake that is hissing (need to eliminate)- Behringer S16
« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2013, 07:02:21 am »

Thank you for the step by step breakdown! I follow now.

Here, from the S16 manual.  Are you're two S16's set as master and slave as they are required to be for stand alone?

The on stage S16 must be set to Standard Mode and the FOH S16 must be set to Master Mode.

5.  Standalone Operation
The S16 does not necessarily need to be used in conjunction with the X32 console.
A pair of S16 units can be linked to send 16 channels to and from the stage,
providing a high-quality digital snake that can work with any analog mixer.
In this scenario, a master S16 will be placed at FOH near the main mixing console,
and the other on the stage (see ’S16 as standalone snake’ hookup diagram).
The†FOH unit must be set to SN MASTER mode so that it can control the preamps
of the unit on stage. All sends from FOH to the stage can be connected to
INTPUTS 1-8 on the ’master’ S16, which will appear at the on-stage unit’s XLR
OUTPUTS. Connect all the sound sources from the performers to INPUTS 1-16 of
the on-stage S16. Channels 1-8 will appear at the ’master’ S16’s XLR OUTPUTS and
channels 9-16 will appear at the ADAT OUTPUT. Connect the ADAT 9-16 OUTPUT to
an ADA8000 or similar preamp to provide analog XLR outputs. The outputs from
the ’master’ S16 and the ADA8000 can be connected to any sort of  main console
for mixing, analog or digital.
For recording applications, a single S16 can also be used as a high-quality mic
preamp. Connect the sound sources to the INPUTS 1-16, and send those channels
via ADAT to an interface or ADAT card installed in your computer. For this scenario,
the S16 must be set to SPLITTER mode.
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Lee Buckalew
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Re: Digital Snake that is hissing (need to eliminate)- Behringer S16
« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2013, 07:02:21 am »


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