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Author Topic: Commercial/Restaraunt Setup  (Read 7188 times)

Ivan Beaver

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Re: Commercial/Restaraunt Setup
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2013, 03:34:22 pm »

. We've had a quote for a bose equipment around $2K. I may have had better luck and not inflamed anyone by just simply stating "I've been quoted $X for system X for area X" and asked if it was overkill, etc, etc. My problem, I guess is that I like to understand in great detail the systems I'm dealing with, recommending or approving. How this installer calculated this configuration specifically.
I give that system 10 minutes or less with a typical DJ.
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Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: Commercial/Restaraunt Setup
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2013, 03:48:20 pm »

I give that system 10 minutes or less with a typical DJ.

That's OK.  Just plug in another one.  They're expendable.
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Alexander Alekseev

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Re: Commercial/Restaraunt Setup
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2013, 04:02:50 pm »

That's OK.  Just plug in another one.  They're expendable.

Errr, DJ is not going to be using the house system :o There is a DJ "Area" where hire dj's can setup their own equipment. And the owner will be pretending to be an mc with his private parties piping his home movies and what not into the bar tv's
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Jay Barracato

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Re: Re: Commercial/Restaraunt Setup
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2013, 05:20:10 pm »

Errr, DJ is not going to be using the house system :o There is a DJ "Area" where hire dj's can setup their own equipment. And the owner will be pretending to be an mc with his private parties piping his home movies and what not into the bar tv's

I have seen more than one system torn to shreds by the staff blasting it after closing while cleaning.
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Jay Barracato

Ivan Beaver

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Re: Commercial/Restaraunt Setup
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2013, 11:02:20 pm »

Errr, DJ is not going to be using the house system :o There is a DJ "Area" where hire dj's can setup their own equipment. And the owner will be pretending to be an mc with his private parties piping his home movies and what not into the bar tv's
That is NOT what I took from your original post.

If the DJ is going to bring their own equipment-then why did you even mention it and talk about the "type" of DJ.

That is totally misleading to anybody even thinking about helping.

So now it is a TV sound system?
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Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Brad Weber

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Re: Commercial/Restaraunt Setup
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2013, 08:30:53 am »

Exactly, I am good friends with the GC and I am trying to break into a new business. I've been installing home theaters and distributed home audio for about a year. Installing home audio is so much easier to plan and install than commercial applications as I'm learning, but everyone has to start somewhere, like you said.
However the typical path would be to either team with or be an employee of a company who has the related skills, knowledge and experience in the relevant commercial install markets and to learn that way before going it on your own.  Or to yourself hire someone with the appropriate background and knowledge to work for you and learn from their experience and knowledge.  Or to at least get some relevant commercial system design and installation training through groups like InfoComm and SynAudCon.


I'm trying to expand my business one project at a time, and I won't cut corners just to make a buck or to get the job.
I have no doubt that you try to do good work and have the best intents but if you really want to help the G.C. and build a reputation in this new area then you probably want to do it right.  So bring in a qualified subcontractor, hire a qualified employee or pass the work on to a qualified provider if necessary.  I've found that if I don't have the requisite background that it is much better in the long run to find someone who does that will work with me or to point the Client to someone who does, in the long run the Client often remembers that your focus was on helping them rather than helping yourself.


BTW, the actual areas are:
Reception 35x15
Seating area 65x50
Bar 35x8 (within seating area)
So does each of those areas need to potentially have different audio or independent volume control?  Are the all the same ceiling height and construction, finishes, etc. (a place where pictures may be worth a thousand words)?  What are the actual inputs and/or sources to the audio system?  Who is doing the TV system and how does the audio tie in with that system?  These are the kinds of functional issues you may need to consider before getting into hardware solutions for them.

You mentioned that the G.C. and/or E.C. would mount the speakers, etc.  What is their related experience?  How are you coordinating with them?  Is there a clear delineation of work for both the initial installation and any potential issues later on?  While there is often work that may be more effectively handled by others there is also something to be said for minimizing the potential points of responsibility especially in terms of a system warranty and any long term system support.


Errr, DJ is not going to be using the house system :o There is a DJ "Area" where hire dj's can setup their own equipment. And the owner will be pretending to be an mc with his private parties piping his home movies and what not into the bar tv's
They are looking for a mid range setup, no paging required.
Main dining area is about 70'x50' not sure about wall or ceiling speakers yet - ceiling will be open but blacked out.
DJ area where owner can play their own house music, cd,s etc for private parties integrated with wall/ceiling speakers.
Okay, so no paging but there apparently will be microphones involved at least in some areas, a critical factor just noted.  And this is not the Owner's house so any audio and video is probably considered a public performance, thus there are associated rights and licensing issues that they have to address and that as a professional, and to somewhat also protect yourself, you might want to formally identify to them and either verify are being addressed or guide them on it if necessary.


As for budget - who of us hasn't experienced a customer asking for a "basic" system, but they only want the best, and have zero idea how much they want to spend.
You need to tie a budget down something before getting too far or for asking for help.  People don't want to risk investing their time and effort to give input that turns out to be either too expensive or of insufficient quality, you first need to develop some better definition of the expectations and goals.
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Alexander Alekseev

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Re: Commercial/Restaraunt Setup
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2013, 05:44:53 pm »

I am seriously considering subbing out the commercial audio part of this project and this is all due to receiving a lot of good information from everyone involved in this discussion. I'm going to address some more questions that arose from previous posters later today when I have some time. Someone said my first post was misleading - if they had read my subsequent posts, I was attempting to expand and clarify my original question, what's wrong with that? Is there some requirement that someone's first post ever on a new forum be perfect and error free?
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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: Commercial/Restaraunt Setup
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2013, 05:54:04 pm »

I am seriously considering subbing out the commercial audio part of this project and this is all due to receiving a lot of good information from everyone involved in this discussion.

I really believe that you're making the correct decision on this.  While it may appear to be a simple matter on the surface, there is so much more to it.  Sort of like the old "tip of the iceberg" conundrum.

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Alexander Alekseev

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Re: Commercial/Restaraunt Setup
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2013, 09:27:40 pm »

I really believe that you're making the correct decision on this.  While it may appear to be a simple matter on the surface, there is so much more to it.  Sort of like the old "tip of the iceberg" conundrum.

The phones and cameras I'm doing are easy compared to commercial sound.

I have an idea of how much is involved when you have to take into account heights, how speaker spacing and size affects dispersion, etc  but I am still wondering how one calculates how much speaker is needed for a given volume of space. (Just the basics, not taking into account finishes, decorative obstructions, etc, etc).
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Commercial/Restaraunt Setup
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2013, 08:34:37 am »

The phones and cameras I'm doing are easy compared to commercial sound.

I have an idea of how much is involved when you have to take into account heights, how speaker spacing and size affects dispersion, etc  but I am still wondering how one calculates how much speaker is needed for a given volume of space. (Just the basics, not taking into account finishes, decorative obstructions, etc, etc).
Here are the steps-that I use anyway.

1: Determine what coverage the loudspeaker has to have.  There are various models out there-or it is done by experience.  This is based on the exact location of the loudspeaker and the mounting height.  Depending on where the owner will actually let you place loudspeakers is a huge factor in determining what type to consider.

2:Determine how loud it needs to be-REALISTICALLY.  This is based on observations-conversations and intuition and experience.  Just remember that the specs on the data sheet will show how loud it CAN get-but not that it sounds good at those levels or how flat the response is at those levels

3: Find out what the budget is-and start to find a loudspeaker that meets the coverage-SPL and budget restraints.  Models come into play here.

5: Determine what size amplifiers are needed to get the desired SPL.

6:  Determine how many channels of processing is needed and what sort of control is needed over the sound.  Some require extgensive processing and other very little.  As  Brad said-how many zones etc.  Do they need to be easily controlled-how is this accomplished (wall panel-computer-switch etc)

Then again-if all you want to do is "make some noise" then just put up anything that fits the budget-but don't be surprised when it does not work as desired.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!
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