ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Down

Author Topic: Commercial/Restaraunt Setup  (Read 7573 times)

Alexander Alekseev

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7
Commercial/Restaraunt Setup
« on: May 08, 2013, 02:23:42 pm »

I have a contractor friend that wants me to setup an audio system for a restaurant that they are working on. I'm new at commercial installations and need some pointers in the right direction.

They are looking for a mid range setup, no paging required.
Main dining area is about 70'x50' not sure about wall or ceiling speakers yet - ceiling will be open but blacked out.
DJ area where owner can play their own house music, cd,s etc for private parties integrated with wall/ceiling speakers
Several 60" led tv's in bar area integrated with wall/ceiling speakers, for when the owner wants to play DVD's for his parties.


I'm wondering if anyone has any recommendations for # of speakers and appropriate rating. This is NOT going to be a raging night club type of restaurant. I'm also not familiar enough with what equipment is generally used in commercial setups that can integrate everything, any recommendations would be helpful.
Logged

g'bye, Dick Rees

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7424
  • Duluth
Re: Commercial/Restaraunt Setup
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2013, 02:35:35 pm »

I have a contractor friend that wants me to setup an audio system for a restaurant that they are working on. I'm new at commercial installations and need some pointers in the right direction.

They are looking for a mid range setup, no paging required.
Main dining area is about 70'x50' not sure about wall or ceiling speakers yet - ceiling will be open but blacked out.
DJ area where owner can play their own house music, cd,s etc for private parties integrated with wall/ceiling speakers
Several 60" led tv's in bar area integrated with wall/ceiling speakers, for when the owner wants to play DVD's for his parties.


I'm wondering if anyone has any recommendations for # of speakers and appropriate rating. This is NOT going to be a raging night club type of restaurant. I'm also not familiar enough with what equipment is generally used in commercial setups that can integrate everything, any recommendations would be helpful.

Alexander.....

Are you a professional designer/installer? If not..........

With all due respect, tackling a job like this with free internet advice is not advisable.
Logged
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...

Brad Weber

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2209
  • Marietta, GA
Re: Commercial/Restaraunt Setup
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2013, 03:23:50 pm »

Before getting to the audio questions, perhaps some more general issues.  Are there any relevant low voltage or similar licensing requirements?  Some states license low voltage contractors and some municipalities require the use of such licensed contractors.  There may not be any such requirements but probably best to be sure that you do meet any such requirements that may apply.

Are you familiar with aspects such as cable ratings and other accepted or required installation practices?  I ran into one installation where the Owner was denied a Certificate of Occupancy due to the audio and video cable not being properly installed and supported, the audio installer had to reinstall all the cable properly and pay for that out of their pocket.

If you are not familiar with the equipment then how do you plan to procure it?  You can certainly purchase it from others and 'two step' it but unless you are an authorized dealer or have a way to work through a distributor that treats you as a dealer then you may not be able to transfer warranty or direct support.


On the system itself, you say no raging night club type parties but also mention the house system being used for a DJ for private parties.  You might have to be a little more specific in terms of the goals and expectations, as well as regarding the budget.

Does the system require any zoning, be that being able to have different audio in different areas or simply independent volume control for different areas?  Do you have any initial concepts for the overall signal routing and processing?
Logged

Ivan Beaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8889
  • Atlanta GA
Re: Commercial/Restaraunt Setup
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2013, 06:25:36 pm »

And of course-WHAT is the budget?

$2K  10K 50K or something else?

What are your labor markups?  That has to be included in the budget consideration.

Do you have proper insurance for hanging loudspeakers?  Do you have experience DOING IT PROPERLY?

Sorry to be rude-but on the basis on the question (and lack of any usable data)highly suggests a total lack of experience.

Logged
A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Alexander Alekseev

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7
Re: Commercial/Restaraunt Setup
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2013, 09:27:04 pm »

I have a contractor friend that wants me to setup an audio system for a restaurant that they are working on. I'm new at commercial installations and need some pointers in the right direction.

They are looking for a mid range setup, no paging required.
Main dining area is about 70'x50' not sure about wall or ceiling speakers yet - ceiling will be open but blacked out.
DJ area where owner can play their own house music, cd,s etc for private parties integrated with wall/ceiling speakers
Several 60" led tv's in bar area integrated with wall/ceiling speakers, for when the owner wants to play DVD's for his parties.


I'm wondering if anyone has any recommendations for # of speakers and appropriate rating. This is NOT going to be a raging night club type of restaurant. I'm also not familiar enough with what equipment is generally used in commercial setups that can integrate everything, any recommendations would be helpful.

Wow, this is exactly the type of information I am looking for, I'll try to address as many points as possible.

My area only requires an LV license for those who install sprinkler and alarm systems.

I've been working for years running a small IT business (this seems to annoy quite a few people around here) and installing networking runs, equipment and voip systems with and without other professionals. A few years ago, started installing home theaters, now looking at commercial.

I'm very close with the GC for this project and have help from his EC as well so that covers proper installation of hanging loudspeakers. (Who wants the liability for or cause problems for the owner/gc for a speaker dropping from 20' up? Not me, so I won't be hanging them).

Cable ratings and acceptable practices for installation are not a problem.

Regarding the system itself, I could have been clearer about the DJ part. There will be a DJ booth where a DJ can bring his own equipment and setup, but they will not be tying into the house system. House system is primarily for bg music in the seating area, bar and reception area. Owner wants to be able to play media from his little corner of the dj area to the screens at the bar.

As for budget - who of us hasn't experienced a customer asking for a "basic" system, but they only want the best, and have zero idea how much they want to spend.

I'm trying to expand my business one project at a time, and I won't cut corners just to make a buck or to get the job.

Sure, I can just go grab some online store's preconfigured Bose 16 channel Freespace system, but I would rather begin to understand everything I'm working with before I waste my time and my customer's money.

BTW, the actual areas are:
Reception 35x15
Seating area 65x50
Bar 35x8 (within seating area)

« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 10:21:20 pm by Alexander Alekseev »
Logged

Hal Bissinger/COMSYSTEC

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 212
    • COMSYSTEC
Re: Commercial/Restaraunt Setup
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2013, 09:59:58 pm »

I've been working for years running a small IT business and installing networking runs, equipment and voip systems with and without other professionals.

It's amazing how IT people think they can do everything. Even more amazing is how everybody else thinks IT people are qualified to do everything and they hire them. What's not surprsing is whatever they do turns out to be the worst mess you have ever seen.
 
No offense of course.
 
-Hal
Logged

Ivan Beaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8889
  • Atlanta GA
Re: Commercial/Restaraunt Setup
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2013, 07:09:15 am »

The term DJ-means VERY different things to different people.

I you saw the number of threads about DJ's who tear up equipment-you would have a totally different view point.

Some are background music-and others are "Party on dude".

Unless you have a QUALIFIED person to watch over the system WHILE IT iS BEING USED!!! you better plan on a STRONG system-and that means expensive.

When you say they want "the best", I suggest throwing out a $50,000 number at them and see what they think.

And then there is proper design and install.

For example:

Today I am going to do a n alignment on a installed system that I designed 3 years ago and it was sent out for bid and installed without any consultation to me.  Everybody on this board would think that the design was way overdone and excessive for its intended usage-but that is what the customer wanted.

I just found out yesterday that they did not put the speakers where I wanted AND WORSE-they put huge decorative clouds inbetween the speakers and the people.  And have some complaints about the sound quality-YEAH-NO KIDDING!

So I get to go today and try to "make it sound better"  This should be interesting.

And yesterday I visited a club that had all kinds of speakers all over the place-5 different manufacturers-4 totally different types of subwoofer designs and all sorts of interactions all over the place.

They would do better to turn off most of the speakers-but they just seemed to keep adding and adding-thinking that was the solution-WRONG.

Good system design is NOT a matter of "what model and ratings should I use-but rather is a juggling act of many variables to get the most performance-within a visually acceptable package that the customer can afford.

If you want to narrow it down a little bit-then come up with some expected SPL numbers that you and the customer are looking for.  Just remember that the "DJ" who is operating the system does not care about those numbers and many will simply crank it until something tears up-or customers ears bleed. 

There is a big dollar difference between those two situations.
Logged
A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Brad Weber

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2209
  • Marietta, GA
Re: Commercial/Restaraunt Setup
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2013, 07:42:45 am »

I've been working for years running a small IT business (this seems to annoy quite a few people around here) and installing networking runs, equipment and voip systems with and without other professionals. A few years ago, started installing home theaters, now looking at commercial.
Stepping back and looking at this at face value, this seems to be saying that you don't really have a background in this type of work and are asking those who do to help you for free so that you can then compete with them and do work that might otherwise be theirs.  At the same time, you are also asking folks who have worked for years to get Clients to recognize the value of using properly qualified providers to support exactly the opposite.  Those factors may be what annoys people here.

You might want to consider hiring someone with experience in similar commercial AV installs and looking at it as 'on the job' training.
Logged

John Roberts {JR}

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16416
  • Hickory, Mississippi, USA
    • Resotune
Re: Commercial/Restaraunt Setup
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2013, 11:06:52 am »

It sounds like you are being asked to design the system too.

Does this restaurant use real chefs or friends who want to learn how to cook? 8)

It isn't rocket science, but there is some science (that you can probably handle once you know where to look it up) and an experience component that you only get from doing or working with someone who has.

You will surely gan experience, for better or worse from doing this. Everybody started somewhere. Is this guy a really good friend willing to tolerate beginner mistakes (that may cost extra money), or just an opportunity to break into a new business?

Good luck... You might try finding an experienced operator in your area to split the job with, so you can rely on his experience. or not..

JR
Logged
Don't tune your drums half-ass. Listen to what a properly "cleared" drum sounds like.   http://circularscience.com/

Alexander Alekseev

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7
Re: Commercial/Restaraunt Setup
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2013, 01:41:23 pm »

It sounds like you are being asked to design the system too.

Does this restaurant use real chefs or friends who want to learn how to cook? 8)

It isn't rocket science, but there is some science (that you can probably handle once you know where to look it up) and an experience component that you only get from doing or working with someone who has.

You will surely gan experience, for better or worse from doing this. Everybody started somewhere. Is this guy a really good friend willing to tolerate beginner mistakes (that may cost extra money), or just an opportunity to break into a new business?

Good luck... You might try finding an experienced operator in your area to split the job with, so you can rely on his experience. or not..

JR

Exactly, I am good friends with the GC and I am trying to break into a new business. I've been installing home theaters and distributed home audio for about a year. Installing home audio is so much easier to plan and install than commercial applications as I'm learning, but everyone has to start somewhere, like you said.

We have plenty of time for this project, and I am still in the exploratory phase. We've had a quote for a bose equipment around $2K. I may have had better luck and not inflamed anyone by just simply stating "I've been quoted $X for system X for area X" and asked if it was overkill, etc, etc. My problem, I guess is that I like to understand in great detail the systems I'm dealing with, recommending or approving. How this installer calculated this configuration specifically.

Logged

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Commercial/Restaraunt Setup
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2013, 01:41:23 pm »


Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Up
 



Page created in 0.129 seconds with 23 queries.