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[jesseweiss]

If you have $700 now and don't spend while you do some more gigs, how will you never have more?

$900 for the JBL is a great deal and is under $1000.

Actually, I would love 4 of them instead of my pair of kw181s.


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Because my band doesn't particularly make money playing.  We've been together for over 25 years, all have other careers, and play for fun more than anything.  We raise money for charities and play at events (town fairs, etc...), but very rarely make anything significant.  We probably earn $1,200 a year, from 3-4 paying gigs, and the rest of the band likes to take $ home.  It took a long time to convince them to spend the $1200 or so to get what we have now, and they have balked at the idea of spending more.

I was actually going to just buy the sub on my own, and coming up with even the $700 is a lot for me.  It honestly seems like the general feeling is not to bother, so maybe I won't.

[Tim McCulloch]

There is always a solution. I would not own anything (or vary much) if I had a local place that had reasonable rental rates.  Why not rent the K-sub try it and see if it's better for you?
If ya like it you can buy it. If not, return it.

I just did a blues night with one K-Sub... admittedly small venue and only vox, harps, sax(s), and keys. Here's a pic.  The K-10's are mains, K-12's on stands for monitors. Extra active speakers appeared with the band members. Mixed with the I pad.

I also just did a  2,903 seat theater with the 'active' rig.  A variety show... 10 acts no hardcore  acts. Celtic, Polka, belly dancing, etc. No problem

That singer looks a little like Mac Kerr....

[Mac Kerr]

That singer looks a little like Mac Kerr....

Easy there...

[Tim McCulloch]

Easy there...

Hey, I could have said he sounds like you, too.... 

[Nik Bastian]

So my band uses 2 Behringer 212A's, 2 Mackie TH-15's, SM58's, and a Behringer UB2442FX mixer.  It works for us, has enough channels, and is a big improvement over the old 80's stuff we used since the 80's.  We used to do only vocals through the PA, but we put a bit of everything in the mix now if the venue is big enough to warrant it.  Helps us manage levels (guitarists!).

Band is a 4 piece rock band that plays a mix of pop/rock/hard rock, etc....  bass, 2 guitars, drums, and we all sing.  We play small bars, outdoor stuff (town fairs, etc...) and some charity stuff (Relay for Life time events).

We've had the stuff for several years now and I'm thinking of a small upgrade.  My question is which upgrade would be a better use of funds, getting new speakers or upgrading the mixer?

The Behringer's actually sound decent and are pretty loud, the Mackie's sound quality is ok but don't push out the volume the Behringer's do.  Given that, we use the B's as mains and the Mackie's as monitors.  I was thinking of trying to get some SRM450's or some RCF's, hopefully used to save $, to upgrade to use as mains and then just use the other 4 as monitors, or maybe even sell the Mackies.

In terms of features, number of XLR inputs, etc... the mixer isn't bad, but I never feel like we get the level out of it we should.  As I'm learning more about sound, I'm starting to think that a better mixer would make better use of the speakers, even if they are entry level.

Thoughts?  Recommendations?

I used that same Behringer mixer for about 5 years. FWIW, It always sounded pretty good and always had decent level.
With the low pass filter engaged and a little bass roll off, the vocal mics had good clarity (I was using e835's). 

Do you have a compressor on the main vocals at all?  I ask because the B212A's can run out of gas fairly quickly with 3 people singing strongly over a drum kit and backline.

I like the powered speaker upgrade train of thought.... ELectrovoice ZLX or Live X active 15's would be a huge step up.
 

[Sean Chen]

Because my band doesn't particularly make money playing.  We've been together for over 25 years, all have other careers, and play for fun more than anything.  We raise money for charities and play at events (town fairs, etc...), but very rarely make anything significant.  We probably earn $1,200 a year, from 3-4 paying gigs, and the rest of the band likes to take $ home.  It took a long time to convince them to spend the $1200 or so to get what we have now, and they have balked at the idea of spending more.

I was actually going to just buy the sub on my own, and coming up with even the $700 is a lot for me.  It honestly seems like the general feeling is not to bother, so maybe I won't.

What determines the sound quality of a speaker are the transducers, enclosure, and horn. If you don't have over $2000 to spend on pro-grade PA speakers, you are not really upgrading noticeably from the Mackie Thump. However, you can do pretty well by getting pro-grade woofers and compression drivers that fit (physically and sonically) in the enclosure and the horn. The woofer needs to play well with the enclosure volume and port size, while the compression driver needs to play well with the horn within its frequency range. The Mackie Thump 15 enclosure, being plastic, is not that great, but workable. Its horn is also large enough for decent dispersion control at useful frequency. You can upgrade to near-pro level of quality for $600 worth of transducers ($200 woofer x 2 and $100 compression driver x 2) if you do your homework.

Parts Express and US Speaker are good sources to find transducers that would work for you.

[Brad Weber]

What determines the sound quality of a speaker are the transducers, enclosure, and horn. If you don't have over $2000 to spend on pro-grade PA speakers, you are not really upgrading noticeably from the Mackie Thump. However, you can do pretty well by getting pro-grade woofers and compression drivers that fit (physically and sonically) in the enclosure and the horn. The woofer needs to play well with the enclosure volume and port size, while the compression driver needs to play well with the horn within its frequency range. The Mackie Thump 15 enclosure, being plastic, is not that great, but workable. Its horn is also large enough for decent dispersion control at useful frequency. You can upgrade to near-pro level of quality for $600 worth of transducers ($200 woofer x 2 and $100 compression driver x 2) if you do your homework.

Parts Express and US Speaker are good sources to find transducers that would work for you.

Please, no.  Especially with a powered speaker you are dealing with an integrated system (not just drivers but enclosure, processing, amps, etc.) designed to all work together.  Start changing drivers and even best case might be minimal improvement while you're more probably likely to end up with something that sounds worse or quits working at all.

[Tim McCulloch]

What determines the sound quality of a speaker are the transducers, enclosure, and horn. If you don't have over $2000 to spend on pro-grade PA speakers, you are not really upgrading noticeably from the Mackie Thump.

Almost anything is an improvement over the Mackie Thump.  A crystal mic plugged into a Fender Champ would be better...  For some events no speakers at all will be better than the Thump. 

I will go on record as saying the Thump is the worst speaker "system" I've ever mixed on.  It's a step down (albeit a small step) from JBL's JRX line, which sucks big excrement.  That said, it's what the OP has to work with and serves to illustrate the "buy once, cry once" and "the wrong gear at the 'right' price is still the wrong gear" philosophies.

And a big "ditto" to Mr. Weber's response...

[Tom Bourke]

Because my band doesn't particularly make money playing.  We've been together for over 25 years, all have other careers, and play for fun more than anything.  We raise money for charities and play at events (town fairs, etc...), but very rarely make anything significant.  We probably earn $1,200 a year, from 3-4 paying gigs, and the rest of the band likes to take $ home.  It took a long time to convince them to spend the $1200 or so to get what we have now, and they have balked at the idea of spending more.

I was actually going to just buy the sub on my own, and coming up with even the $700 is a lot for me.  It honestly seems like the general feeling is not to bother, so maybe I won't.

Never enough money to do it right, always enough to do it over.  Year after year.
I do understand you have band politics and budgets to work with.  One configuration I like is powered tops with passive subs and an amp rack.  I have a small 30lb amp rack with 1 PLX amp and a DSP that drives up to 4 subs.  Maybe find something used that is similar?

[Doug Fowler]

What determines the sound quality of a speaker are the transducers, enclosure, and horn. If you don't have over $2000 to spend on pro-grade PA speakers, you are not really upgrading noticeably from the Mackie Thump. However, you can do pretty well by getting pro-grade woofers and compression drivers that fit (physically and sonically) in the enclosure and the horn. The woofer needs to play well with the enclosure volume and port size, while the compression driver needs to play well with the horn within its frequency range. The Mackie Thump 15 enclosure, being plastic, is not that great, but workable. Its horn is also large enough for decent dispersion control at useful frequency. You can upgrade to near-pro level of quality for $600 worth of transducers ($200 woofer x 2 and $100 compression driver x 2) if you do your homework.

Parts Express and US Speaker are good sources to find transducers that would work for you.

So, you have done these modifications?

[ProSoundWeb Community]