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Author Topic: AV Recording church service for website  (Read 4803 times)

Andrew Staheli

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AV Recording church service for website
« on: April 18, 2013, 11:47:04 am »

Hello everyone,

I have recently been volunteering as the web developer/designer for my church's website.  Recently my pastor and ministry assistant asked about uploading videos of our sermons (including the music portion of the service) to the website.  The thing is he wants a very good quality.  Now, when I think of very good quality for a church, I am thinking about A/V editing on a PC that costs at least $1500 and using video equipment of $500+ and sound hardware in the $5-7k range. (please note the bolded items above)  I am by no means experienced in A/V, but I can learn enough for our needs. 

I am just trying to see if we need to upgrade our audio equipment in order to move foreward, or is what we have here suffient to produce excellent recordings.  I will give you a run down of the equipment we currently have:

Eurodesk MX 3282 (I think 32 channels is probably more than needed, Im guessing 24 would still be more than enough, but suffient for growth)
Eurodesk 150 watt PSU
ETA Systems PD8L Conditioned Power Distribution
Tascam CD200i
TEAC AD-600 CD Multi / Reverse Cassette Deck
Digitech Studio Quad V2 4in 4out Multieffect processor
Presonus TUBEpre
Behringer Xenyx 802 premium 8 input 2-bus mixer  / mic preamp british eqs

As for video, Im not really sure what we have, but to me it looks like an outdated security camera...

I'd like to record the sermons via video HD camcorder, have a headset mic on the pastor to record the audio separately, and later sync the audio and video.  I am open to suggestions and thoughts.  I want to be able to present a good case to my church's budget and finance committee and then in the church business meeting if major upgrades are needed.  If you need any more information from me I will do my best to answer.

~Andrew Staheli
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Jared Koopman

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Re: AV Recording church service for website
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2013, 12:04:36 pm »

Just a note that you might want to make sure you have the licensing to post copy written material online. I am not an expert on this but it might be worth checking out.

It doesn't look like that mixer has a matrix output. You could use the direct outputs (partially inserted into the insert jacks) and run those into A/D converters so that you can multitrack record...giving you the ability to mix the audio for the recording separately.

You could use an unused group and create a stereo feed to a recorder.

I would consider replacing the Eurodesk with an X32. THe X32 has built in computer interface for multi-tracking or record directly to USB.
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Andrew Staheli

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Re: AV Recording church service for website
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2013, 01:09:58 pm »

Thank you for your reply.

If I were to get the A/D converter, would that give me the ability to multitrack record directly to audio a pc via say USB or Firewire?

Or, if I were to obtain the X32, what would be the difference between multitrack recording to USB vs straight to a PC(or is that possible?)
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Brad Weber

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Re: AV Recording church service for website
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2013, 01:27:18 pm »

Just a note that you might want to make sure you have the licensing to post copy written material online. I am not an expert on this but it might be worth checking out.
Related, you might also want to be sure you have rights to record and/or distribute the content.  Getting the rights has a cost but can be a lot cheaper than if it ever becomes an issue and you don't have them.

One technical factor may be you audio techs and their skills as well as how you are using some of the existing gear.  In simple terms, you may be able to get by with an audio mix from the house system.  Or you may want several submixes that you then mix just for video.  Or you may even want a completely independent, dedicated mix for video being created by someone isolated from the live sound in the Sanctuary.  A lot of that depends on your expectations, what you can do with the existing system and how much your techs can comfortably handle.

On the video, start thinking of the kind of quality are you looking to get.  And that is not just the image quality from the camera but things like whether a single, static image can give the results you want.  Also consider where the camera can or would be located and what kind of shot that allows, how your lighting might affect the image, how you may want to incorporate graphics and so on.  And of course a major factor in some cases is if the camera is envisioned to be only for recording/broadcast or if there is some desire to use it for image magnification in the space.

I will point out that you seem to be talking about spending $1,500 for a computer and $5,000 to $7,000 on additional audio equipment but just $500 for "very good quality" HD video.  Seems like the video aspect is a bit of an afterthought.

When you mention wanting to record the audio and video separately and then later sync them that could mean just manually syncing them or it could mean adding time code to both along with playback devices and/or software that will then lock and chase the time code for both.  Or you could simply record both live already in sync and always edit both together.
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Andrew Staheli

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Re: AV Recording church service for website
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2013, 03:15:53 pm »

Hahah this shows my lack of knowlege on the subject.  Please forgive my ignorance.

I believe it would be beneficial to focus more on the getting audio and video, both together via the camcorder and separate audio via wireless headset mic, of the sermon itself.  So I would essentially have 2 files. A A/V file and an Audio file.  I would edit them separately, then together and manually sync.  I'm getting the idea I don't need a soundboard or any of that equipment for this task, but I clearly need to do some more research on the this.
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Brad Weber

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Re: AV Recording church service for website
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2013, 04:51:02 pm »

Realistically, a single static image from a $500 camcorder with audio via its internal mic will look and sound like a single static image from a $500 camcorder with audio via its internal mic.  Also, since the wireless mic is right at the pastor and the camera is some distance away then if you mix those two signals the pastor's voice in the camera audio may sound like an echo.  What is probably more common for simple systems is to use an aux send or some other mix from the main audio console to create an 'audio for video' mix that is sent to the camera such that both audio and video are recorded and later edited together.
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Sidney.Pilien

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Re: AV Recording church service for website
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2013, 11:24:34 pm »

I record the audio from an open aux into Pro Tools . I use Mac so it's easier. I upload video into iMovie and edit if anything, convert to Quicktime movie to desktop then import into Pro Tools and sync it. Mbox w/Protools is about $400. It will take a while to learn the software and it's not that hard. No need to upgrade anything.

And by the way, if you choose this route, PT is very finicky with the computer it uses so you need to check out the website for the correct computer to the PT version or you might get endless error codes. Hope this helps.
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Lee Buckalew

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Re: AV Recording church service for website
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2013, 10:11:27 am »

I record the audio from an open aux into Pro Tools . I use Mac so it's easier. I upload video into iMovie and edit if anything, convert to Quicktime movie to desktop then import into Pro Tools and sync it. Mbox w/Protools is about $400. It will take a while to learn the software and it's not that hard. No need to upgrade anything.

And by the way, if you choose this route, PT is very finicky with the computer it uses so you need to check out the website for the correct computer to the PT version or you might get endless error codes. Hope this helps.

Depending upon the length of the program and/or the detail or close ups needed this may or may not work well enough.  Recording on two different devices without using something to synchronize their speeds will result in drift.  Over the course of an hour long program this an be very problematic.  If there are specific visual cues that relate to audio cues then it will be more noticeable at a smaller drift (think a shot of a drummer and the stick hits don't align or a pianist where the hands pressing the keys don't match the hammer strikes recorded to audio).

Lee
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Lee Buckalew
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Sidney.Pilien

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Re: AV Recording church service for website
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2013, 10:00:56 pm »

Depending upon the length of the program and/or the detail or close ups needed this may or may not work well enough.  Recording on two different devices without using something to synchronize their speeds will result in drift.  Over the course of an hour long program this an be very problematic.  If there are specific visual cues that relate to audio cues then it will be more noticeable at a smaller drift (think a shot of a drummer and the stick hits don't align or a pianist where the hands pressing the keys don't match the hammer strikes recorded to audio).

Lee

It requires time stamping for long recording. I do short recordings and it's no problem. Check this post from Avid, same question- http://goo.gl/4yLLC
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Lee Buckalew

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Re: AV Recording church service for website
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2013, 02:17:14 am »

It requires time stamping for long recording. I do short recordings and it's no problem. Check this post from Avid, same question- http://goo.gl/4yLLC

I am fully aware of it.
That's why I was brining it up.  Didn't want somebody to see about about separate recorders not being a problem and then have a problem if they had a lengthy program.

Lee
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Brad Weber

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Re: AV Recording church service for website
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2013, 08:45:29 am »

It requires time stamping for long recording. I do short recordings and it's no problem. Check this post from Avid, same question- http://goo.gl/4yLLC
Maybe I misunderstood it but the referenced Avid thread seems to be discussing using the camera as a LTC generator and recording the time code on the ProTools audio so the audio and video can later be synced via LTC.  That is a good way to accomplish what is desired but it does not seem directly relevant to the system and approach being described here.

The length of program and potential 'drift' between separate audio and video or two different audio recorders may be relevant.  If you are dealing with only the Pastor's message or something like that then that may be technically and legally different than trying to record an entire service, music performances or special events.
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brian maddox

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Re: AV Recording church service for website
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2013, 01:46:12 pm »

Okay, for once i actually have something useful to contribute...  :)

We do exactly what you're trying to do at our church, so we've figured out a few things.  So here's some thoughts.

1.  Copyright issues come into play as soon as you put musical performances on the web.  Copyright Solvers [Google is your friend] has a specific license that allows you to place basically any song PERFORMED by YOUR CHURCH on the web.  Note that you cannot have the words to the song on the screen.  Different license.  Also, you cannot change any of the content of a song.  Arrangement changes are fine, but some churches sometimes like to take secular songs and alter some of the lyrics for their service.  Fine for the service.  NOT fine for broadcast.  Just something to know.  There are no copyright issues with webcasting your messages.

2.  Good audio is really important and the thing most churches get the most wrong.  Multitracking your services has now become something that can be done very cheaply.  Someone suggested an X32, which is what we use.  I multi-track all our services on to a computer and remix all the audio tracks specifically for webcast and DVD use.  You can use a stereo mix taken straight from your FOH board, but you'll never really be happy with it.

3.  I record a direct FOH board feed to our video recorder and use this as a 'guide track' to manually sync my remixed audio up during editing.  This is really easy once you've done it a few times and is in fact the way that most people do it now.  While it is technically possible for things to 'drift' if they were recorded on different machines, the reality is that with modern digital recorders this drift is negligible.  i've never had an issue with this, even on programs approaching 2 hours.  Humans can actually tolerate quite a bit of difference in timing between their video and audio, so while things might drift by a couple of milliseconds, you'll never notice it.  In short, don't sweat timecode at this point in the game.  you don't need it.

3.  Tools for this have gotten pretty cheap.  I use Macs exclusively, but there are PC options as well.  I use Reaper as my DAW [70 bucks or so] and Final Cut ProX as my Video editor [about 300 bucks].  One halfway decent Computer can record multitrack audio, remix, and do your video editing. 

4.  For Video recording, i'd recommend the Blackmagic Designs Hyperdeck studio.  We tried several different computer based solutions, but all failed us in one way or another.  The BMD HyperDeck solves all that.

5.  One camera is gonna make for a very dull thing to watch, especially for music.  2 cameras is WAY more than twice as good.  with clever switching, 2 cameras can look like a LOT more.  You can shoot them independently and edit them in post, or run them through an inexpensive switcher [Again BMD has some good solutions here].  We do the latter.  3 Cameras is another exponential step up.  Caution:  video can easily become a black hole to pour money into.  Just sayin'...

6.  If you can at all avoid it, DO NOT do iMag.  iMag is simply putting your video cameras on video screens for people to watch during the service.  Trust me, iMAG adds SO MANY problems that it's really not something you want to get into unless your room seats at least 1000 people or more. 
Lighting Issues.  Latency Issues.  Switching Issues.  UGH!  Just Don't Do It.  Trust me on this...

Regarding your original Budget...  I think you can spend less on audio.  An X32 would be a step up for PA use and would give you lots of options for recording.  Those run around 2500 bucks right now.  Your budget for a decent PC/Mac to do this is about right.  I just bought a new iMac that is a monster and spent less than 2 grand.  1500 will buy you a very capable machine.  But the money you save on audio will end up going to video.  You'll need a couple of cameras and a decent switcher and a recorder, which is gonna take at least 4-5 grand to accomplish.

Good luck with the learning curve.  It's fun.  :) 

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Richard Carter

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Re: AV Recording church service for website
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2013, 04:40:43 pm »

Agree you need to be sure about copyright.

As to the actual recording, I have very good results with something like a Canon HF M41 HD camcorder.  I run the audio from the record out to the Audio in jack (ext mic) on the camcorder - this disables the internal mic and gives better sound.  If you are just posting the basic video with little editing, something like Pinnacle Studio can work just fine.  A fast HDD is helpful though.
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Re: AV Recording church service for website
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2013, 04:40:43 pm »


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