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Author Topic: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?  (Read 230655 times)

Bob Leonard

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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #180 on: November 17, 2013, 01:49:39 AM »


We need to keep in mind that project 802 defines Ethernet hardware as a method for sharing data. AES50 is a protocol running on an over provisioned Ethernet based network.

The original 506A and 506B specs came from Western Electric as one of their contributions to IEEE and project 802. The reason for the A and B is due mainly to IBM who in the early 80s pushed hard for their Token Ring based network to become the standard. There was a separation within the project and to reduce financial impact more than one standard was adopted. Through the years cost and flexibility/capability has determined the Ethernet topology as what can be called the ISO physical layer winner, yet other topologies still abound hence WECO 568A cable plants can still be found.
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Jason Lucas

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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #181 on: November 17, 2013, 11:52:13 AM »

Has anyone tried using the X32 + S16s with the shielded ethercon cables with the X32 and S16s on different circuits?
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RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS

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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #182 on: November 17, 2013, 01:33:04 PM »

Has anyone tried using the X32 + S16s with the shielded ethercon cables with the X32 and S16s on different circuits?

What do you mean by "different circuit?"   Do you mean a different outlet derived from a different breaker in the same electrical panel/distro?

Or do you mean a circuit derived from a completely different electrical source such us the console on house power and the S16 on generator power?
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Dan Mortensen

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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #183 on: November 17, 2013, 02:14:00 PM »

What do you mean by "different circuit?"   Do you mean a different outlet derived from a different breaker in the same electrical panel/distro?

Or do you mean a circuit derived from a completely different electrical source such us the console on house power and the S16 on generator power?

More likely scenario: Gig in large building, S16 on circuit from one panel, console on circuit from another panel, with  voltage between grounds.

We've now been told that Behringer recommends using the same phase to power both, which I believe is more detail than we've had before. I *thought* one of the advantages of digital consoles was the ability to avoid ground loops, which is done in part in analog world by using the same phase power for both stage/FOH, or at least same panel.

This is actually not a problem for my company, because we always have AC bundled with the snake so the console can live anywhere and is not dependant on reaching an outlet, but still.
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Jason Lucas

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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #184 on: November 17, 2013, 08:14:38 PM »

More likely scenario: Gig in large building, S16 on circuit from one panel, console on circuit from another panel, with  voltage between grounds.

We've now been told that Behringer recommends using the same phase to power both, which I believe is more detail than we've had before. I *thought* one of the advantages of digital consoles was the ability to avoid ground loops, which is done in part in analog world by using the same phase power for both stage/FOH, or at least same panel.

This is actually not a problem for my company, because we always have AC bundled with the snake so the console can live anywhere and is not dependant on reaching an outlet, but still.

Correct, if we were to purchase an X32 the console would be plugged into an outlet by the sound booth one end of the room and the S16s plugged into an outlet on stage. Need to know if this would be a problem.
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There are three things I hate: Harsh highs, hollow mids, and woofy bass.

Dan Mortensen

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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #185 on: November 17, 2013, 10:13:36 PM »

Correct, if we were to purchase an X32 the console would be plugged into an outlet by the sound booth one end of the room and the S16s plugged into an outlet on stage. Need to know if this would be a problem.

Hi Jason,

For starters, find out where the circuit breakers are for the two outlets in question.

If they are in the same electrical panel, you are probably fine; still, try another test:

Run extension cords to the two outlets in question, cords which are long enough to reach a central point. #12 or as large as you can get would be best. Measure with a decent voltmeter the AC voltage between the two ground pins. It should ideally be a volt or less (electrical guys will tell us the voltage limit here I'm sure). Measure the voltage between the two hot pins. If it's 0 or so, they are on the same phase. If it's 240 or 208, they are on different phases. If it's higher than that you have a different problem and should call an electrician immediately.

Speculation subject to expert commentary: if there is minimal voltage between the grounds, and especially if the two outlets' circuit breakers are in the same panel, it shouldn't matter if it's 120 volts or 208/240, hum/buzz wise.

In my portable system we run off three phases, and don't pay any attention to which one any console is on, as long as the overall load is more or less balanced. I've not yet achieved perfect balance with a bunch of varying 120v loads, FWIW.

Conditions other than the above are beyond my expertise.

HTH,
Dan

Edit: It would also be good info to know ground-neutral voltage for each and neutral-neutral. I'm sure someone will chime in with acceptable voltages and variations.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2013, 11:13:00 PM by Dan Mortensen »
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Michael Kurczeski

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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #186 on: November 20, 2013, 04:48:24 PM »

Didn't want to read through 19 pages of posts so i apologize in advance if this has been stated. A console that I've had for 14 months just started acting up. I Lost headphone outs, and had some kind of strange digital noise on channel 10. I called behringer to send in for a warranty repair and was told that you have to register it online within 90 days of purchase to be eligible for an additional 2 years of warranty after the first year. so....everyone better register, because only if you fill out a form with your name, address, phone # and serial # will behringer back the product after 1 year.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2013, 04:50:44 PM by Michael Kurczeski »
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Corey Scogin

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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #187 on: November 26, 2013, 10:10:10 PM »

For what it's worth, I'll add more test results to the mix.

X32 Compact Port A to S16 #1 via 50ft Belden 1533R STP w/Ethercons
X32 Compact Port B to S16 #2 via 50ft Gepco CT504HDX UTP w/Ethercons

Simulating a static discharge at the S16 end using a lighter igniter, the S16 connected with UTP drops out within 3-5 shocks, the S16 connected with STP didn't drop out after 30+ when I stopped.  Both S16's are racked in the same ATA case.  Shocking the STP connected S16 would occasionally cause the UTP connected S16 to drop out.

I'm not fond of the Belden 1533 cable.  It holds its shape almost as well as a twist-tie.  I'm still looking for a good STP cable for snake use.  Any suggestions that are currently available retail?
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Brian Wynn

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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #188 on: November 26, 2013, 11:31:22 PM »

For what it's worth, I'll add more test results to the mix.

X32 Compact Port A to S16 #1 via 50ft Belden 1533R STP w/Ethercons
X32 Compact Port B to S16 #2 via 50ft Gepco CT504HDX UTP w/Ethercons

Simulating a static discharge at the S16 end using a lighter igniter, the S16 connected with UTP drops out within 3-5 shocks, the S16 connected with STP didn't drop out after 30+ when I stopped.  Both S16's are racked in the same ATA case.  Shocking the STP connected S16 would occasionally cause the UTP connected S16 to drop out.

I'm not fond of the Belden 1533 cable.  It holds its shape almost as well as a twist-tie.  I'm still looking for a good STP cable for snake use.  Any suggestions that are currently available retail?

Good test man.

The ProPlex from TMB kicks butt.  I just received a bunch of it and its not badly priced.
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Dan Mortensen

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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #189 on: November 29, 2013, 01:50:23 PM »

Good test man.

The ProPlex from TMB kicks butt.  I just received a bunch of it and its not badly priced.

I received some of the quad ProPlex, and it is so stiff I'm not sure how I'll be able to use it. I was able to fight it into a roadcase, and my first use of it will be next Wednesday.

The Gepco UTP that Corey mentions is so sweet and flexible; going to this ProPlex is really a downer from an ease of use standpoint.

Thanks again to you and now Corey for your work figuring this out. I'd still like to see the results of JR's suggestion of a test using UTP with Ethercons plus an additional ground wire connecting the console and S16 together...

I feel like my problem of disrupting the sync (or whatever was happening, and which triggered my AES Section workshop about Audio over Ethernet Cable) when pinching/pulling the cable was due to the pairs moving in relation to each other, and feel that the quad assemblies with their double jackets will minimize that movement. I also like having multiple cable possibilities within one overall jacket. For example, my show next week will require a run from S16's onstage to FOH console, then a run back to the stage and then to a room somewhere with a second console doing a mix for a live radio feed and recording, plus a third run to get a wireless router at FOH connected to the radio console so I can keep track on an iPad of what that engineer, who is not experienced with the console, is doing (but not to interfere with his work).

That would be a booger with individual runs, but simple with the quad.
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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #189 on: November 29, 2013, 01:50:23 PM »


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