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Author Topic: New speaker placement causing deafing HF, please help.  (Read 20616 times)

Eric Crissman

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Re: New speaker placement causing deafing HF, please help.
« Reply #40 on: April 06, 2013, 02:52:59 PM »

Small venue sound: 90 x 50 horns. not too high, not to low. k-sub per side.. all that's needed for this one.

Doesn't that just blast people in the face?  I am going to try that though super easy.
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Mark McFarlane

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Re: New speaker placement causing deafing HF, please help.
« Reply #41 on: April 06, 2013, 04:04:30 PM »

I got it, and will test them. I will also search for the fixed angle tilt, I was under the impression that a tilt post or speaker sockets couldnt handle the weight. Other than the distance apart and tilt they had before they are the same height. I will test your suggestion hopefully sometime this weekend. Thank you.

The K&M fixed angle tilters I have have a way to reposition the speaker, so that the center of mass stays over the pole. This is an important feature.  The tilters should be rated for the weight of your speakers (better to have some excess capacity).  K&M is a reputable brand, you can trust their specs and their steel.  Someone (Dick?)  previously mentioned toilet shims to adjust the angle, you can search for that thread, the shims allow you to fine tune the downward tilt but I suspect for your app a 20 degree tilt will be about perfect.

Also note, it should sound significantly better with people in the room, than with the room empty.  The people will absorb and scatter some of the high frequencies before they bounce off the concrete floor.
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Mark McFarlane

g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: New speaker placement causing deafing HF, please help.
« Reply #42 on: April 06, 2013, 04:30:48 PM »


Also note, it should sound significantly better with people in the room, than with the room empty.  The people will absorb and scatter some of the high frequencies before they bounce off the concrete floor.

SOUNDS GRRRRREAT!!!!!!!!!
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Eric Crissman

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Re: New speaker placement causing deafing HF, please help.
« Reply #43 on: April 06, 2013, 04:47:41 PM »

The K&M fixed angle tilters I have have a way to reposition the speaker, so that the center of mass stays over the pole. This is an important feature.  The tilters should be rated for the weight of your speakers (better to have some excess capacity).  K&M is a reputable brand, you can trust their specs and their steel.  Someone (Dick?)  previously mentioned toilet shims to adjust the angle, you can search for that thread, the shims allow you to fine tune the downward tilt but I suspect for your app a 20 degree tilt will be about perfect.

Also note, it should sound significantly better with people in the room, than with the room empty.  The people will absorb and scatter some of the high frequencies before they bounce off the concrete floor.

Awesome! Last night we had some people over and some bodies did make a difference. Of course they didn't look nearly as good as the post above.
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Eric Crissman

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Re: New speaker placement causing deafing HF, please help.
« Reply #44 on: April 06, 2013, 06:16:35 PM »

Wow, with the garage door open whoa! Sounds good, not sure the the golfers appreciate the material but it's like being "in concert". I found my reflective surface, I believe its the garage door.
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Mark McFarlane

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Re: New speaker placement causing deafing HF, please help.
« Reply #45 on: April 06, 2013, 11:50:32 PM »

Wow, with the garage door open whoa! Sounds good, not sure the the golfers appreciate the material but it's like being "in concert". I found my reflective surface, I believe its the garage door.

If that helped, then aiming the speakers down the long axis of the garage will help.  You can also treat the back of the garage with Rockwool or OC703 panels.  There are off-the-shelf garage door insulting panels that will help some with mid-highs, but you really don't want a foil faced (reflective) surface and normal insulation doesn't work very well as an absorber, you need something with a fairly high density.

If you use Rockwool or OC703 you'll NEED to cover it with a fire retardant, acoustically transparent material.  Even a few panels on the door will help, you don't need to cover it 100%.
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Mark McFarlane

Tim Perry

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Re: New speaker placement causing deafing HF, please help.
« Reply #46 on: April 07, 2013, 10:36:48 PM »

Doesn't that just blast people in the face?  I am going to try that though super easy.

Well, blast is such an ugly word.  In live SR you bring up what is needed and mix with what is produced on stage.

My overall philosophy is make music, not noise.

The U15 has nine rigging points each. No reason I can see that you couldn't hang these things and tilt em down.
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Bob Leonard

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Re: New speaker placement causing deafing HF, please help.
« Reply #47 on: April 08, 2013, 09:47:35 AM »

It won't be practical to leave the door open, and now you've found what every 60's garage band found 50 years ago. High volumes bounce off the doors and high frequencies win every time. The horns for your top boxes should be just above head height, 6' and the cabinets turned about 20 degrees towards the wall, adjusted to taste while playing. Add a few sound deadening panels like the panels below and rock on brutha.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SFlat1114PUR?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=PPC&utm_campaign=none&device=c&network=g&matchtype=&gclid=CKXi6ciau7YCFY4-MgodczMAAw

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/manufacturer/Auralex
 

 
PS - we used egg crates in the 60's.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2013, 09:49:15 AM by Bob Leonard »
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Mark McFarlane

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Re: New speaker placement causing deafing HF, please help.
« Reply #48 on: April 08, 2013, 11:10:27 AM »

... Add a few sound deadening panels like the panels below and rock on brutha.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SFlat1114PUR?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=PPC&utm_campaign=none&device=c&network=g&matchtype=&gclid=CKXi6ciau7YCFY4-MgodczMAAw

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/manufacturer/Auralex
 

 
PS - we used egg crates in the 60's.

The Auralex foam will work as an absorber, but typically not as well as Rockwool or OC703.  Out of the box the foam can be pretty, and it's very easy to hang.  Over time it will collect a lot of dust (need gentle vacuuming) and be prone to damage (chunks tearing out) from things bumping into it. Also, Getting glued-on foam off of walls will tear off wallboard paper or pretty much any other surface coating (been there, done that).

Rockwool or OC703 panels are cheaper and provide broader band and more absorption. Pre-made panels (GIK and others) are moderately expensive, but with some 1*2s, a hand saw, picture wire, wallboard corner edging, and some flame retardant covering (http://www.guilfordofmaine.com/acoustic/panel)  you can whip out some really nice wall treatment that you can hang like a picture, and easily move around.    Build the 1*2 frame the same size as the panels (typically 2'*4') and place the frame behind the panels so the Rockwool/OC703 is 2" off the wall to get better absorption.  Add wallboard 'outside corner moulding' to the front of the panels to give a nice sharp edge, cover in fabric and staple gun it to the wood frame.

I suspect the Bob's (recycled paper) egg crates provided half absorption and half diffusion, and neither one very well.  And a nasty fire hazard.

Here's a few pics of my Rockwool panels: http://www.arkoserecords.com/Studio/tabid/60/Default.aspx
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Mark McFarlane

Eric Crissman

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Re: New speaker placement causing deafing HF, please help.
« Reply #49 on: April 08, 2013, 11:22:49 AM »

It won't be practical to leave the door open, and now you've found what every 60's garage band found 50 years ago. High volumes bounce off the doors and high frequencies win every time. The horns for your top boxes should be just above head height, 6' and the cabinets turned about 20 degrees towards the wall, adjusted to taste while playing. Add a few sound deadening panels like the panels below and rock on brutha.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SFlat1114PUR?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=PPC&utm_campaign=none&device=c&network=g&matchtype=&gclid=CKXi6ciau7YCFY4-MgodczMAAw

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/manufacturer/Auralex
 

 
PS - we used egg crates in the 60's.

Your right leaving the doors open isn't always practicle. We did have them open on Saturday and the friends that came over kept complimenting on the sound. Their opinion was sounded better than it ever has in the past. Opening the space made the subs sound soooo sweet, and the HF nice and accurate.

Some sound treatment is in order.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: New speaker placement causing deafing HF, please help.
« Reply #49 on: April 08, 2013, 11:22:49 AM »


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