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Author Topic: New speaker placement causing deafing HF, please help.  (Read 13820 times)

Eric Crissman

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Re: New speaker placement causing deafing HF, please help.
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2013, 07:52:33 pm »

The U15 have 60 x 60 degree (conical) HF pattern. You have moved them much closer together then before and now they are aimed partly at the ductwork.

Yes it looks way cool but I would suggest moving them further apart and bringing down the height or tilting them down.

I wish I could tilt them down some. I may have to fly them to get that angle. That opens up a whole new can of worms. These things aren't light it was a 2 person job getting them on the sticks.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2013, 07:57:02 pm by Eric Crissman »
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Greg_Cameron

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Re: New speaker placement causing deafing HF, please help.
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2013, 08:22:22 pm »

I wish I could tilt them down some. I may have to fly them to get that angle. That opens up a whole new can of worms. These things aren't light it was a 2 person job getting them on the sticks.

Maybe look into the BT-12 which will support up to 100lb. and maintain the center of gravity of your boxes up on the poles with the down tilt. They're not cheap but probably cheaper than flying.
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Tim Perry

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Re: New speaker placement causing deafing HF, please help.
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2013, 08:24:30 pm »

I wish I could tilt them down some. I may have to fly them to get that angle. That opens up a whole new can of worms. These things aren't light it was a 2 person job getting them on the sticks.

see if anything from quick loc looks interesting. http://www.quiklok.com/pdfs/Quik%20Lok%20Speaker%20&%20Lighting%20Stands.pdf
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Eric Crissman

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Re: New speaker placement causing deafing HF, please help.
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2013, 08:25:05 pm »

Maybe look into the BT-12 which will support up to 100lb. and maintain the center of gravity of your boxes up on the poles with the down tilt. They're not cheap but probably cheaper than flying.
I'll  check those out. These Yorkville adjustable poles aren't anything to write home about.
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Stu McDoniel

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Re: New speaker placement causing deafing HF, please help.
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2013, 10:58:56 pm »

First off thank you for your time, I have changed my speaker configuration during a remodel, and now have two unique situations I hadn't had with the prior arrangement. I was hoping someone might be able to suggest some way to correct. This is in my garage and the equipment doesnít get moved. \

1. The U15Pís on sticks develop ear piercing HF at higher volumes (e.g. crash symbol) in the center of the room. itís not as bright/harsh on the right and left of the center clustered subs.
2. The bass output from the UCS1P is intense on the right and left flanks (which I like) but lacks that punch in the center of the cluster.

For reference I will include before (sounded pretty good) and after the remodel pictures. Equipment is powered Yorkville Unity, Allen and Heath ZED14 and laptop or Stanton 502.c . Only used for playback material that has been professionally recorded (not mp3).

The subs with the center clustered horns (before photo) sounded better but the way we use the space I need to keep a small footprint. Would placing the U15P on stick on the center two subs kind of like an array help, or rotating the U15Pís in or out?

Thank you,
Eric Crissman

Current configuration, Concrete floors, concrete walls (topped with hard coat), Plaster ceilings (insulated, glued and screwed)


HVAC bulkhead possible adding to the reflection.

Old setup, U15P angled down at about 20 degrees.

Take the boxes off the sticks and set them on top of the subs.  Two choices. 
Either separate the subs and and the tops to either side of the open area or put the hi pac boxes together in the center of the sub cluster on top of the subs.  Unless that space you have is filled with human beings blocking coverage to the back of the room then keep the tops down on the subs.
Don't you think you have some comb filter crap going on with that current setup?  You have a highly reflective space there.   You can use to room treatments as well.
I tell ya if you lose the poles and put the tops together in the center of that heap you will have better results.

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Bob Leonard

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Re: New speaker placement causing deafing HF, please help.
« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2013, 01:13:35 am »

Drop the top cabinets about a foot and put six more feet between them.
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Mark McFarlane

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Re: New speaker placement causing deafing HF, please help.
« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2013, 04:45:51 am »

A few more thoughts.

It would probably sound better with the speakers firing down the long axis of your garage,  That will go a long way towards reducing the rear wall echo volume (unless you are running with the garage door open).

Where did you take the SPL measurement, 1' from the speakers or 30' away?  Makes a big difference.

I'm confused by the pictures, the first one shows raw cinder block walls but the garage photos all look like painted walls.

Getting the tops off the ceiling and tilting them should help.  Also some treatment on the ceiling in front of the speakers (RockWool, OC703) should help. Pretend like the sound is a billiard ball and treat the reflection point between the speakers and the audience problem areas.

Do you really need stereo? For that room and your huge speakers I'd be tempted to put the speakers in a corner and only use one of the tops.  Should be plenty loud. No comb filtering, minimal wall reflections, and might even out the bass a little.







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Mark McFarlane
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Mark McFarlane

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Re: New speaker placement causing deafing HF, please help.
« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2013, 05:36:12 am »

1. The U15Pís on sticks develop ear piercing HF at higher volumes (e.g. crash symbol) in the center of the room. itís not as bright/harsh on the right and left of the center clustered subs.

Most of the discussion here has been around moving/tilting the tops to get rid of early reflections and comb filtering between the two cabs.  FWIW, these effects usual blur (attenuate) high frequencies so I'm not sure that is your root problem if the highs are piercing with your current setup.  A little parametric EQ should tame the shrill highs and the placement/tilt/treatment should clean u the highs, but it wont make them softer.
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Mark McFarlane
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Bob Leonard

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Re: New speaker placement causing deafing HF, please help.
« Reply #28 on: April 06, 2013, 07:52:56 am »

I go along with that Mark but my statement concerning dropping the height of the top cabinets has to do with reflections off of the ceiling, plus as close together as they are in the pictures tends to make me feel he's got a pretty good beaming effect going on as well. One quick change the OP could make, even if he did nothing else, would be to aim the speakers more towards the outside walls. He'll get some reflection, but he'll find that much more pleasant than summing those horns, plus he's fill the room using lower volumes that sound just as loud.
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Eric Crissman

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Re: New speaker placement causing deafing HF, please help.
« Reply #29 on: April 06, 2013, 08:03:27 am »

A few more thoughts.

It would probably sound better with the speakers firing down the long axis of your garage,  That will go a long way towards reducing the rear wall echo volume (unless you are running with the garage door open).

Where did you take the SPL measurement, 1' from the speakers or 30' away?  Makes a big difference.

*** I took the measurements 15' away standing directly in front of the cluster. Then walked directly to the right and then to the left staying on the  center axis. I only measured the side of the garage  that has the speakers (approx 28 wide X 30 deep).

I'm confused by the pictures, the first one shows raw cinder block walls but the garage photos all look like painted walls.

***It's the same space hence the "remodel" Actually the system is only a few feet to the left of its orignal location, you can see the same glass block window in the before and after pictures. (BTW thank you I'll take that as an indirect compliment, It was a lot of work making those cinder block wall into hard coat plaster and painted walls).

Getting the tops off the ceiling and tilting them should help.  Also some treatment on the ceiling in front of the speakers (RockWool, OC703) should help. Pretend like the sound is a billiard ball and treat the reflection point between the speakers and the audience problem areas.

*** I agree I need some type of treatment, last night experimenting here is what I found. Of course this is only based on my ear, and honestly after awhile fatigue sets in. If I rotate the speakers outward toward the wall closest to each top the harshness is reduced not eliminated but reduced compaired to the tops firing directly forward. I noticed the same thing rotating the tops both inward (toe in). I can get a simular result with the tops firing directly forward by triming the 12kHz gain back -5 on the board. It is totally dependant on the material, some of the hip hop dance stuff I play can be brutal, while others I actually need to increase the 12kHz.

Do you really need stereo? For that room and your huge speakers I'd be tempted to put the speakers in a corner and only use one of the tops.  Should be plenty loud. No comb filtering, minimal wall reflections, and might even out the bass a little.

Honestly, I don't really need any of this but when it's setup right it sure makes for a nice system.

Thank you for taking so much time with me on this, I appreciate it.

Hmm sorry me inserting my comments within the quote didn't work out quite like I thought. My replys are in blue.
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Re: New speaker placement causing deafing HF, please help.
¬ę Reply #29 on: April 06, 2013, 08:03:27 am ¬Ľ


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