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Author Topic: [UPDATED] Need advice on given design for new facility  (Read 34932 times)

Cailen Waddell

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Re: [UPDATED] Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #80 on: December 08, 2013, 03:00:28 pm »

I would say an acoustician might be the first order of business. If the room is as bad as described, the right or wrong sound system isn't going to work well. Fix the acoustics, then a good system integrator will have something to work with.  In reality these process could be done in parallel, but I think investing anymore in equipment is foolish until the acoustics are dealt with.
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Doug Hammel

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Re: Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #81 on: December 08, 2013, 03:07:47 pm »

Probably a little late to swap all this out..so just for discussion purposes...what would you guys have proposed instead?

This is some of my convo with the installer after I asked about concerns raised in this thread while back before the install:

Did JBL actually do the EASE model or someone else? Does JBL back up the EASE model you put up? Just asking.
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Doug Hammel

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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: [UPDATED] Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #82 on: December 08, 2013, 03:10:21 pm »

I would say an acoustician might be the first order of business.

Back to square one...
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Doug Hammel

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Re: [UPDATED] Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #83 on: December 08, 2013, 03:19:20 pm »

Back to square one...

+1  ;D.....unfortunately
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Doug Hammel

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Ivan Beaver

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Re: [UPDATED] Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #84 on: December 08, 2013, 04:36:10 pm »

Back to square one...
The only way to EQ a room is with a bulldozer or wrecking ball.

I have actually told a Church (who built a round room and was having issues) that they should tear it down and start over-instead of looking for a some magic loudspeaker solution.

At least it was not as bad as another Church who built a round room WITH a doomed ceiling!

I told them years before they broke ground (after seeing the plans) that was a BIG mistake.  But what do I know-they thought it looked cool----------------------

After all-what is more important-having a room that you can actually use for the intended purpose-or a shrine to the architect????????????????????
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Ivan Beaver
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Justin Philip

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Re: Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #85 on: December 08, 2013, 04:39:23 pm »

I would also get some quotes from other integrators. 2nd and 3rd opinions will give you some contrasts and possibly other angles, no pun intended, on how someone else would approach this room. If the "flutter/echo" is that bad without the system on then you will definitely need an Acoustical Engineer to consult on the room even if it is already built. All the gear in the world will not overcome that.
I have already contacted 4 companies in the Houston area including CTSI, HPF Acoustical, Russ Berger, and Bai Austin. Any other ones you guys know of?

I have to get the payment for the acoustical design approved by the board asap and have the company start on the design for the treatment. At this point, this seems like the most logical thing to do. Treat the room, and then see how things sound.

At this point, going to mono is probably not going to happen..maybe add mono out in the middle to make it LCR..but the car..i mean the subs are in the way. lol.
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Re: Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #86 on: December 08, 2013, 04:43:01 pm »

I have already contacted 4 companies in the Houston area including CTSI, HPF Acoustical, Russ Berger, and Bai Austin. Any other ones you guys know of?

I have to get the payment for the acoustical design approved by the board asap and have the company start on the design for the treatment. At this point, this seems like the most logical thing to do. Treat the room, and then see how things sound.

At this point, going to mono is probably not going to happen..maybe add mono out in the middle to make it LCR..but the car..i mean the subs are in the way. lol.

Yup.  Just keep throwing money at the problem. 
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Cailen Waddell

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Re: [UPDATED] Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #87 on: December 08, 2013, 05:09:03 pm »

I would not invite the acoustic companies to submit a treatment plan. I would ask them to let you know, based on their judgement if treatment could solve your problems. It may be that you need to knock down some walls.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #88 on: December 08, 2013, 06:19:17 pm »


At this point, going to mono is probably not going to happen..maybe add mono out in the middle to make it LCR..but the car..i mean the subs are in the way. lol.
Again you are missing the point.  With an LCR- EACH of the elements HAS to cover the entire room.

What speaker system would you put in the middle (center) that would cover the whole room? Especially down front left and right?

While the "concept" sounds good-the actual implementation is not always so easy.

Unless of course you don't mind some people not hearing well.

So some people can't hear the center-others can't hear the left and others can't hear the right.

So you are just adding MORE seats that can't hear everything.

Kinda sounds like a step backwards to me.

And don't let anybody tell you that you can put a center hang in front of the subs.

How are you possibly going to align it?  If you think you can just delay the mains-think again.

Consider this:  With a flown cluster-the sound from the speakers that reaches the audience is already "late" reaching the audience-as compared to an acoustic source on stage.  This is partially due to the path length from the speakers to the audience-plus any delay in the console (if digital), the DSP etc.

So adding more delay (and it would be more than just the physical distance between the subs and mains, due to processing/crossover filters etc-just makes the sound from the mains even later.

Just sayin' you need to consider more than the "simple" ideas.
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Thad Kraus

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Re: Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #89 on: December 09, 2013, 01:40:44 pm »

Again you are missing the point.  With an LCR- EACH of the elements HAS to cover the entire room.

What speaker system would you put in the middle (center) that would cover the whole room? Especially down front left and right?

While the "concept" sounds good-the actual implementation is not always so easy.

Unless of course you don't mind some people not hearing well.

So some people can't hear the center-others can't hear the left and others can't hear the right.

So you are just adding MORE seats that can't hear everything.

Kinda sounds like a step backwards to me.

And don't let anybody tell you that you can put a center hang in front of the subs.

How are you possibly going to align it?  If you think you can just delay the mains-think again.

Consider this:  With a flown cluster-the sound from the speakers that reaches the audience is already "late" reaching the audience-as compared to an acoustic source on stage.  This is partially due to the path length from the speakers to the audience-plus any delay in the console (if digital), the DSP etc.

So adding more delay (and it would be more than just the physical distance between the subs and mains, due to processing/crossover filters etc-just makes the sound from the mains even later.

Just sayin' you need to consider more than the "simple" ideas.
Not to hijack this thread, but is there ever a time where a Stereo PA is acceptable? Is it perhaps possible to have a LCR system with music coming out LR in Stereo and Vocals in the center?
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #89 on: December 09, 2013, 01:40:44 pm »


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