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Author Topic: [UPDATED] Need advice on given design for new facility  (Read 35343 times)

Tim McCulloch

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Re: Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #60 on: December 07, 2013, 11:38:20 am »

----and to make profit for the installer.


When I took a refresher SMAART class a few years ago there were a couple of quiet guys in the back.  When practical applications came up on day 3, they had lots of questions about aligning balcony fill with mains... but the really fun part was when they asked about aligning balcony SUBS (under the balcony seating).  The room got quiet and finally someone asked "who did the design/install?"  They named a company most of us have taken to calling "Fraud" because of their propensity to over-spec speakers and create more problems than they solve.  I think these gentlemen figured out their church had been over-sold.
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Scott Hofmann

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Re: [UPDATED] Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #61 on: December 07, 2013, 01:56:36 pm »

Please don't tell me all the ceiling lighting fixtures are fluorescent.
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Scott Hofmann

Justin Philip

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Re: [UPDATED] Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #62 on: December 07, 2013, 03:04:23 pm »

I thought I posted the design on the first page but I will post it again.

It's L/R mains with subs in the middle. They are not pointed outward. Might be the picture. The lighting is incandescent.

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Ivan Beaver

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Re: [UPDATED] Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #63 on: December 07, 2013, 03:29:48 pm »

I thought I posted the design on the first page but I will post it again.

It's L/R mains with subs in the middle. They are not pointed outward. Might be the picture. The lighting is incandescent.
How does the left cluster cover the seats down front on the right-and vice versa?
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Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: [UPDATED] Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #64 on: December 07, 2013, 03:52:03 pm »

How does the left cluster cover the seats down front on the right-and vice versa?

Ivan...

A miracle, perhaps?

I'm not an unsympathetic person, but it does seem like a certain amount of "buying the hype" is occurring here.  And as you state, this is likely more common than not.  It would appear that the installer either acceded to the clients desired concept or actually took advantage of a gullible group to turn more of a profit regardless of performance.

Maybe this is the first of the three systems you see organizations purchasing...
« Last Edit: December 07, 2013, 04:09:59 pm by dick rees »
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Justin Philip

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Re: Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #65 on: December 07, 2013, 10:56:36 pm »

Probably a little late to swap all this out..so just for discussion purposes...what would you guys have proposed instead?

This is some of my convo with the installer after I asked about concerns raised in this thread while back before the install:

Quote
Me: Is the data being smoothed out or manipulated in any other way? It almost looks too good to be true...I expected to see a lot of comb filtering at 2K with two widely separated boxes.

Installer: The EASE model is generated with all of JBLs in house engineers providing the proper information and programming for the EASE program to perform the calculations.  All of the material and surfaces in the room were discussed before the model was designed.  It is as accurate as it can be.  The fact that it is a smooth rendering is a factor of the speaker being properly fitted and adjusted to the room.  Either way, the room has phenomenal coverage true across the board.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #66 on: December 07, 2013, 11:05:37 pm »

Probably a little late to swap all this out..so just for discussion purposes...what would you guys have proposed instead?

This is some of my convo with the installer after I asked about concerns raised in this thread while back before the install:
It is quite easy to change the way EASE is displayed.  Even a bad system can be made to "appear" to have very even coverage.

I would have gone with a mono system with a center cluster (or single speaker) with a fill off to the left and right for the seats down front.

This is especially important (less sources of sound) for a room that has a high reverb time.

The clearer the source is-the more intelligible it will be for the listener.
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Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

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Re: Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #67 on: December 07, 2013, 11:18:14 pm »

It is quite easy to change the way EASE is displayed.  Even a bad system can be made to "appear" to have very even coverage.

I would have gone with a mono system with a center cluster (or single speaker) with a fill off to the left and right for the seats down front.

This is especially important (less sources of sound) for a room that has a high reverb time.

The clearer the source is-the more intelligible it will be for the listener.

Indeed.

JP:

Does the double-hang result from a congregational desire for a "stereo system"?  If so, the installer is guilty of supplying what was asked for rather than what would be correct...
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David Sturzenbecher

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Re: [UPDATED] Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #68 on: December 07, 2013, 11:36:15 pm »

I thought I posted the design on the first page but I will post it again.

It's L/R mains with subs in the middle. They are not pointed outward. Might be the picture. The lighting is incandescent.

Where are the subs in this picture?
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Chris Hindle

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Re: [UPDATED] Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #69 on: December 07, 2013, 11:51:47 pm »

Where are the subs in this picture?
Unfortunately, the subs are center hung. Right where I would have put the main PA (mono) hang.
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Re: [UPDATED] Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #69 on: December 07, 2013, 11:51:47 pm »


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