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Author Topic: [UPDATED] Need advice on given design for new facility  (Read 30247 times)

Tim McCulloch

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Re: Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2013, 11:36:46 pm »

I will talk with the designer about all the suggestions that has come up so far.

Also he recommended PRX stage monitors. Are those ok? I have seen some posts about the angle being weird. I was hoping for SRX or STX but it's a lot more per channel once you add in the required amps.

Any other powered monitors that you guys recommend instead of PRX?

We needed "B" stage monitors.  We looked at 5 or 6 different speakers before settling on SRX712M.  Unfortunately no longer available, they had the combination of output, weight, size/shape/angle that we needed for our very specific use.

For a HoW, I'd suggest looking at the Vue a-12.  The sound of the Vue boxes reminds me of some very expensive European speakers that need their own amps & processing... ;)

As for your PA... I think you should ask the designer for the coverage and field SPL predictions for the 4886 rig as proposed.  Hint:  I agree with other posts that do not feel the 4886 rig is sufficient for your needs without a delay ring.  You need a much longer line of higher output speakers and the subs need to be flown differently in order to get the trim height you will need OR the entire concept needs to be revisited.

Does this system design come from a vendor that shares a name with an automobile manufacturer, by chance?
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2013, 07:20:23 am »

I will talk with the designer about all the suggestions that has come up so far.

Also he recommended PRX stage monitors. Are those ok? I have seen some posts about the angle being weird. I was hoping for SRX or STX but it's a lot more per channel once you add in the required amps.

Any other powered monitors that you guys recommend instead of PRX?
It is interesting to me (especially in HOW-that we give the people who are the most picky about sound (the musicians), "whatever is left over" or the lowest quality loudspeakers.

Should they not be getting the BETTER speakers?

The problem I have with powered stage monitors is that you have two cables going to each speaker.  There is typically enough clutter on stage, and in a church the stage should look as clean as possible.

Just something to think about.
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2013, 12:36:05 pm »

The problem I have with powered stage monitors is that you have two cables going to each speaker.  There is typically enough clutter on stage, and in a church the stage should look as clean as possible.

That is only a problem if you don't think far enough ahead when buying them to also order the right cable to power and drive them. Combo cables with power and audio come with almost every powered speaker I run into. There is no cable issue with the vendors I get gear from.

Mac
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Jason Andreasen

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Re: Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2013, 02:00:49 pm »

One more point to ponder... If you are looking at all new amps/wedges for stage monitoring, have you considered moving to IEM/Personal Monitoring?  There are quite a few good options these days - In particular I think the Allen Heath system looks really promising in terms of capability while still providing a user friendly interface.  Of course there's the standard Aviom setup, MyMix, Elite Core, and I think Avid even has an option if you're going with the SC48.
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brian maddox

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Re: Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2013, 04:20:28 pm »

One more point to ponder... If you are looking at all new amps/wedges for stage monitoring, have you considered moving to IEM/Personal Monitoring?  There are quite a few good options these days - In particular I think the Allen Heath system looks really promising in terms of capability while still providing a user friendly interface.  Of course there's the standard Aviom setup, MyMix, Elite Core, and I think Avid even has an option if you're going with the SC48.

+1000

any HOW that is putting in a new system and isn't putting in some kind of Personal Monitor Mixing Solution is really missing the boat IMHO.  there are very good options at almost every price point now.  and every HOW battles SPL problems that can be significantly reduced with a good IEM system.
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Justin Philip

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Re: Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2013, 04:40:55 pm »

We got a youth band (that will use IEM) and an adult band who can't spell IEM who demand loud monitors on stage. Thus the need for the hybrid system.

So there's 6 Aviom units + 2 Shure wireless IEM units already in the design. The stage monitors are in addition to that for the adult band.

If we go with the STX812m (800,1600,3200watts), whats the cost effective way to power them?
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 05:49:43 pm by Justin Philip »
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Lee Buckalew

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Re: Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2013, 06:12:18 pm »

We got a youth band (that will use IEM) and an adult band who can't spell IEM who demand loud monitors on stage. Thus the need for the hybrid system.

So there's 6 Aviom units + 2 Shure wireless IEM units already in the design. The stage monitors are in addition to that for the adult band.

If we go with the STX812m (800,1600,3200watts), whats the cost effective way to power them?

Given this layout you are only covering about 1/4 to 1/2 your audience reasonably.  In my opinion this layout needs to be rethought so that the vast majority are covered evenly unless there are delays and front fills that are not indicated.

Lee
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Justin Philip

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Re: Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2013, 06:25:57 pm »

Given this layout you are only covering about 1/4 to 1/2 your audience reasonably.  In my opinion this layout needs to be rethought so that the vast majority are covered evenly unless there are delays and front fills that are not indicated.

Lee
Front fills are not on the sound mapping I posted (but are included). No delays as part of the design.

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Justin Philip

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Re: Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2013, 11:34:53 pm »

"The risers being covered, was a simple aiming correction on the drawing.  It was changed by accident when i was copying the models over.  It has been corrected.  Please see the attached file.  Please note, the front of the seating area on the floor doesn't look as well covered, but this mapping doesn't reflect the stage fills adding sound to the front chairs."

What do you guys think now?
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Brad Weber

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Re: Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2013, 05:32:40 am »

I should predicate any comments with saying that your system designer and Architect probably know a lot more about the project and your goals than I do, so keep that in mind.

That section and the coverage shown in the array software seem to only address on axis of the two arrays but what happens off axis?  Did the system designer do any prediction beyond the on-axis vertical coverage shown?  And did they look at any frequencies other than 500Hz and 1kHz?  It would be interesting to see how well each array covers the entire seating if the system is stereo and how much combiltering and power alley you might get for mono sources as well as things like the resulting intelligibility.

I don't know what the ceiling material is but does the system designer expect any issues from the distance the LF boxes are from the ceiling?

Has anyone verified that the AC15 front fills can physically fit in the locations shown?  Unless the speakers actually sit exposed on top of the steps you are probably going to need some type of enclosure that is larger than the speaker while also having to work within the step height.  And which plan is correct, the seven stage fill locations shown on the speaker plan seem to not work with the Platform front shown on the overall floor plan (the center location is bumped out while the two extreme side speakers would appear to be aimed at the walls).

Speaking of steps, any access to the platform seems to involve four steps.  ADA access is not a requirement but not having one or more ramp access paths to the Platform could prevent limiting the potential use of the space and make getting things on and off the Platform easier.

Are you planning on all the amplifiers and processing being located at FOH?  It would seem to make sense to have an amp room closer to the speakers.

Is anybody addressing acoustics and not just room finishes but also aspects such as room shaping and dimensions, sound isolation and mechanical system noise?

A purely architectural issue but in terms of keeping the cross aisle clear and sightlines it seems like it would make more sense to move the floor level seats just behind the cross aisle to the front of the cross aisle and have the first seats behind the aisle elevated so they can see over people using the cross aisle.
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Re: Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2013, 05:32:40 am »


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