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Author Topic: Lighting basics  (Read 3837 times)

Benjamin Lewinsohn

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Lighting basics
« on: March 14, 2013, 08:32:33 am »

Hello
So I am completely new to lighting and am learning as I go. I’ve been trying to search the net for guides to stage lighting etc, but what I have found hasn’t been exactly related to what I’m looking. I apologise if these questions have been answered or considered basic.


1.   Has anyone got any guides or articles for lighting??
2.   I know this gets asked a lot but LED lights, They use the DMX protocol, so I need a controller that can control LED lights and old school fresnells and Parcans( will call them globe lights)? Any ideas or tips to where to start looking.
3.   Dimmers? Like audio multicores? Does that mean there are different dimmers for LEDs and globe lights
4.   Should I run the globe lights separate to LEDs( i.e. different control systems)
5.   At one location we have a LSC Maxim, can that control LEDs ‘intuitively’ or should I look at another controller?
6.   Maxnet is the same as Artnet?
7.   If I am sending audio (Dante) down a cat5e cable already can I use Artnet or Maxnet at the same time on the same network.
8.   I have asked this question in another forum, but can I use  Dante, Artnet/Maxnet and AVB(video over ip) over a single 1Gbs switch, or should I slit it up?

Ben

Thank you for understanding and being patient with me.
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Josh Daws

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Re: Lighting basics
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2013, 11:15:05 am »

1.   Has anyone got any guides or articles for lighting??
there is a lot around if you google it, however nothing will ever beat advice from a "good" production company.


2.   I know this gets asked a lot but LED lights, They use the DMX protocol, so I need a controller that can control LED lights and old school fresnells and Parcans( will call them globe lights)? Any ideas or tips to where to start looking.
there is no point in having separate lighting consoles for your conventional ("globe lights") fixtures and LED/Moving Fixtures. the best thing to do is spend the money on a console that can do this. my advice it to not cheap out on your lighting console, spend good money here since this is going to be your tool to create for now and the future, and this is something to be considered for future use as well. something in at a basic level is Martin M2PC, or GrandMA onPC w/wing.

i rarely recommend just a PC solution, most cheaper brand USB dongles, for example, ADJ, Chauvet, Elation, do not have any kind of protection for your laptop/computer, and you can blow up all your equipment should you not have this voltage isolation. so be careful

 
3.   Dimmers? Like audio multicores? Does that mean there are different dimmers for LEDs and globe lights
dimmers refer to a pack in which where you light plug in and you are able to control them from a console. they do as they state. you should NEVER plug in your led fixtures into this as you will destroy them. Unless you have a switch pack capabilities. LED fixture should always be lugged into a constant power supply

4.   Should I run the globe lights separate to LEDs( i.e. different control systems)
no. keep your lighting infrastructure controlled from the one source, but keep the power separate in they dimmers for conventional, and constant for LED's.

5.   At one location we have a LSC Maxim, can that control LEDs ‘intuitively’ or should I look at another controller?
depending on the size frame that you have and how much control that you want is if you think if you need another controller.

6.   Maxnet is the same as Artnet?
kinda, it is martin's own protocol for talking across their media servers. usually used for video walls and displaying video content. (im willing to be corrected on this)


7.   If I am sending audio (Dante) down a cat5e cable already can I use Artnet or Maxnet at the same time on the same network.
NO...to be honest im not sure why you are even worrying about Artnet if you are new into lighting. this should be the very least of your concerns. HOWEVER this must be on its own separate network. artnet is reccommended to start in a 2.x.x.x IP starting address. so NO!

8.   I have asked this question in another forum, but can I use  Dante, Artnet/Maxnet and AVB(video over ip) over a single 1Gbs switch, or should I slit it up?
NO...see above, you must always keep lighting separate to audio. DANTE IS AUDIO ONLY (from my understanding) AVB isn't really and industry standard (i could be wrong and ignorant on this), and Artnet is your industry standard.



now that i have explained this (to my best understanding), please do not go confusing yourself with this information. it seems that you are already confused by information that you have researched elsewhere, or even yourself, or have been given by someone else.

i applaud you for wanting to learn and understand the world of lighting, but the best way to learn is to get experience and learn first hand from the people that work in the industry, not on forums, or youtube. this is how bad situations get worse. forums like PSW are here for advice and to have specific "situational" questions answered, not to teach you how to do lights. sorry if i seem a little harsh...its just something that annoys me...yet i still responded rather than ignored *sigh* lol

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Ted Christensen

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Re: Lighting basics
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2013, 12:08:44 pm »

1.   Has anyone got any guides or articles for lighting??
there is a lot around if you google it, however nothing will ever beat advice from a "good" production company.


2.   I know this gets asked a lot but LED lights, They use the DMX protocol, so I need a controller that can control LED lights and old school fresnells and Parcans( will call them globe lights)? Any ideas or tips to where to start looking.


there is no point in having separate lighting consoles for your conventional ("globe lights") fixtures and LED/Moving Fixtures. the best thing to do is spend the money on a console that can do this. my advice it to not cheap out on your lighting console, spend good money here since this is going to be your tool to create for now and the future, and this is something to be considered for future use as well. something in at a basic level is Martin M2PC, or GrandMA onPC w/wing.

i rarely recommend just a PC solution, most cheaper brand USB dongles, for example, ADJ, Chauvet, Elation, do not have any kind of protection for your laptop/computer, and you can blow up all your equipment should you not have this voltage isolation. so be careful

 
3.   Dimmers? Like audio multicores? Does that mean there are different dimmers for LEDs and globe lights
dimmers refer to a pack in which where you light plug in and you are able to control them from a console. they do as they state. you should NEVER plug in your led fixtures into this as you will destroy them. Unless you have a switch pack capabilities. LED fixture should always be lugged into a constant power supply

4.   Should I run the globe lights separate to LEDs( i.e. different control systems)
no. keep your lighting infrastructure controlled from the one source, but keep the power separate in they dimmers for conventional, and constant for LED's.

5.   At one location we have a LSC Maxim, can that control LEDs ‘intuitively’ or should I look at another controller?
depending on the size frame that you have and how much control that you want is if you think if you need another controller.

6.   Maxnet is the same as Artnet?
kinda, it is martin's own protocol for talking across their media servers. usually used for video walls and displaying video content. (im willing to be corrected on this)


7.   If I am sending audio (Dante) down a cat5e cable already can I use Artnet or Maxnet at the same time on the same network.
NO...to be honest im not sure why you are even worrying about Artnet if you are new into lighting. this should be the very least of your concerns. HOWEVER this must be on its own separate network. artnet is reccommended to start in a 2.x.x.x IP starting address. so NO!

8.   I have asked this question in another forum, but can I use  Dante, Artnet/Maxnet and AVB(video over ip) over a single 1Gbs switch, or should I slit it up?
NO...see above, you must always keep lighting separate to audio. DANTE IS AUDIO ONLY (from my understanding) AVB isn't really and industry standard (i could be wrong and ignorant on this), and Artnet is your industry standard.



now that i have explained this (to my best understanding), please do not go confusing yourself with this information. it seems that you are already confused by information that you have researched elsewhere, or even yourself, or have been given by someone else.

i applaud you for wanting to learn and understand the world of lighting, but the best way to learn is to get experience and learn first hand from the people that work in the industry, not on forums, or youtube. this is how bad situations get worse. forums like PSW are here for advice and to have specific "situational" questions answered, not to teach you how to do lights. sorry if i seem a little harsh...its just something that annoys me...yet i still responded rather than ignored *sigh* lol


I thought you could use artnet with audio in ethernet..you would just have to change the artnet subnet.
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Kyle Leonard

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Re: Lighting basics
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2013, 12:11:48 pm »

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Luther Bell

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Re: Lighting basics
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2013, 12:57:04 pm »

First off, what kind of lighting are you aiming for?  simple front light and maybe some LED color for a corporate event?  Basic rock & roll lighting for a small band in a bar?  All out arena style rock & roll production?

1.   Has anyone got any guides or articles for lighting??

You can't control lights without knowing a little about DMX.  Check out this thread for some PDFs on DMX for Beginners. (http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php?topic=116307.0)

2.   I know this gets asked a lot but LED lights, They use the DMX protocol, so I need a controller that can control LED lights and old school fresnells and Parcans( will call them globe lights)? Any ideas or tips to where to start looking.

LEDs can/should run off the same console that you are running all of your lighting from.  If you want the basic up/down with two scenes option, you can go cheap to start with something like this: http://www.fullcompass.com/product/267033.html.  I use the ETC SmartFade a lot and it's easy to program.

3.   Dimmers? Like audio multicores? Does that mean there are different dimmers for LEDs and globe lights

Conventional (globe lights) need dimmers, most LEDs don't.  Here's a good starter dimmer http://www.fullcompass.com/product/335342.html.  The dimmer, LEDs, conventionals, and board all interconnect with DMX cable.  There is 3-pin and 5-pin DMX cable.  Yes, standard 3-Pin XLR cable will work for 3-Pin DMX needs and it's alright (not proper) if you are doing low profile gigs and your show won't be ruined if a cable stops working.

4.   Should I run the globe lights separate to LEDs( i.e. different control systems)

No

5.   At one location we have a LSC Maxim, can that control LEDs ‘intuitively’ or should I look at another controller?


There are cheaper, more portable and easier to learn boards

6.   Maxnet is the same as Artnet?

I don't know

7.   If I am sending audio (Dante) down a cat5e cable already can I use Artnet or Maxnet at the same time on the same network.

I don't know

8.   I have asked this question in another forum, but can I use  Dante, Artnet/Maxnet and AVB(video over ip) over a single 1Gbs switch, or should I slit it up?

I don't know

Ben

Thank you for understanding and being patient with me.
[/quote]
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Luther Bell
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: Lighting basics
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2013, 03:34:39 pm »


7.   If I am sending audio (Dante) down a cat5e cable already can I use Artnet or Maxnet at the same time on the same network.
NO...to be honest im not sure why you are even worrying about Artnet if you are new into lighting. this should be the very least of your concerns. HOWEVER this must be on its own separate network. artnet is reccommended to start in a 2.x.x.x IP starting address. so NO!
It is absolutely possible to run Dante and Artnet/web browsing/whatever down the same cable IF: you have available bandwidth (which is extremely likely on a 1GB link) and have appropriate VLAN separation.  Artnet and other control protocols are very low bandwidth.  Dante was specifically designed to play nicely on regular Ethernet networks (though if you're routing it you are better off if you have AVB aware switches), and will likely work even without separate VLANs if there are no address conflicts.
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James Feenstra

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Re: Lighting basics
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2013, 08:58:20 pm »

Quote from: Josh Daws

7.   If I am sending audio (Dante) down a cat5e cable already can I use Artnet or Maxnet at the same time on the same network.
NO...to be honest im not sure why you are even worrying about Artnet if you are new into lighting. this should be the very least of your concerns. HOWEVER this must be on its own separate network. artnet is reccommended to start in a 2.x.x.x IP starting address. so NO!
artnet will run just fine at any ip, if Dante is tcp/ip based I see no reason why the two would not run fine down the same cable as long as there is enough bandwidth available.

Quote
8.   I have asked this question in another forum, but can I use  Dante, Artnet/Maxnet and AVB(video over ip) over a single 1Gbs switch, or should I slit it up?
NO...see above, you must always keep lighting separate to audio. DANTE IS AUDIO ONLY (from my understanding) AVB isn't really and industry standard (i could be wrong and ignorant on this), and Artnet is your industry standard.
in theory yes, but a 1gb switch probably isn't enough bandwidth for audio, lighting and video. If you're running hd video you'll eat up all your bandwidth right there.
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Josh Daws

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Re: Lighting basics
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2013, 02:18:37 am »

personally i am still in the learning stages about dante...i know that it is for AUDIO use, and how consoles are intergrated etc...

i was told by certain guys in the industry that artnet likes to be addressed 2.x.x.x to keep it clear from being mixed up in the world of addressing...and so i took it as, this should be run separate. in my experience everything lighting should be separate from audio, and never the two should meet! :)

but its kinda handy to know that you can run it with the dante network
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Lighting basics
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2013, 02:18:37 am »


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