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[Nitin Sidhu]

Hello!

Age old question would be the next rig for us.

We have it down to 2 options.

4 x STX835
4 x STX828
2 x MA5000i
2 x MA9000i
or Xti6002 x 6 (Budget depending, with the sub amps running bridged)
http://asia.jblpro.com/catalog/general/ProductFamily.aspx?FId=112&MID=3
http://www.crownaudio.com/usa/amplifiers/macro-tech-i-series.html

Or

8 x dbTechnologies DVA T4
2 x dbTechnologies DVA S30 with purchase of 2 more asap
Flying tower DVA DRL45
Rigging frames and all etc.
http://www.dbtechnologies.com/index.php?id=22&no_cache=1&L=0&tx_amdbt_pi1%5Bcategory%5D=31&tx_amdbt_pi1%5Bproduct%5D=143&tx_amdbt_pi1%5Bshow%5D=accessories&cHash=97bcdcba95fe8962dc0589a4d66a4632

Landed cost of both systems is the same, and we cannot afford more.
We do not need to match riders.

I understand that for a start the JBL STX rig could be a lot more powerful. But in the longer term, I presume scalability with the DVA rig. Where we can increase the system to 16-32 T4's with Subs to match.

We do not need a small format line array. And I understand that 4 a side do not qualify as one.

Our priorities would be soundquality/scalability/ROI.

Long term goal to be able to cover 1200 Pax, rock and roll.
Immediate goal, 200 Pax, Rock and roll.

I really like the sound of the STX825, but have only read positive reviews of the DVA.

Clients like to see small speakers hanging from the air, and are typically willing to pay better over a stacked system. Also, I don't see a point of over 2 a side STX825's, so that would kill scalability ?

As you can judge I am tending towards the DVA. Inspite of my lack of experience on it.
Your opinions please.

Thanks a ton!
Sidhu

[Mario Data]

I haven't heard the T4 or the T12, but I do own 4 S30s and I can say they are a geat cabinet.  They hit hard and go low.  I've heard really good things about the rest of the DVA line and I believe it. The T4 will give you more options for deploying the PA versus just ground stacking the STX. 

[Rick Alan]

In the last year how many times did you have the need to fly a rig?  Buy for the 90% need not the 10% want. 

[Tim McCulloch]

Hi Nintin-

We've just purchased a T-4 rig (without subs, we have lots of those about).  Right now for a casino cabaret gig we fly 4 per side to cover from 6' from the stage to the back wall, (about 16 metres).  I'd like a 5th box to smooth out the coverage, but for what the client expects and has space for, it works to their satisfaction.

We keep 4 T-4 on a bumper, flip it upside down on a 24" x 45" wheel board.  There is enough room to put another 4 T-4 (hooked together in a flat line) face to face with the other speakers.  We put a packing blanket between them.  On the back side of the first stack we have an area above the bumper, so we put a piece of filler plywood on the bumper and creatively stack 3 JBL SRX712m.  We have a 2nd wheel board where we do the same with the T-4, and put a 4th 712M on the back along with a power amp for the monitors and a small box with the AC power and signal jumpers.

Right now we're using JBL JRX118SP for subs.  They are on an Aux send, but I'm experimenting with looping through the sub first, and sending the HPF signal to the T-4 and the other way around, running a full range signal from the T-4 down the pick to the sub.  With 4 top boxes, I turn the sub down about 3dB and get a nice "American" sub sound with a little haystack around 50Hz.  For rock I'd do things differently (like bring a couple of 4880 subs and an I-Tech).

No experience yet with louder, rock-ish gigs but those are coming.  When we have more experience with the T-4 I'll write a review.

Back to your original decision - I like JBL products but haven't used the STX line yet and can't make a comparison, but in the cabaret scenario above, the original specification called for KF850.  A rendering was done and we looked at the sight line issues a ground stack of big PA would cause.  We worked with the client and they decided a "line" array would be fine.  From a sound standpoint I can't compare them in that space, but from a casino guest and entertainer standpoint the flown "dash" (not a full line, you see ) array makes for a better experience.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

[Nitin Sidhu]

Hi Nintin-

We've just purchased a T-4 rig (without subs, we have lots of those about).  Right now for a casino cabaret gig we fly 4 per side to cover from 6' from the stage to the back wall, (about 16 metres).  I'd like a 5th box to smooth out the coverage, but for what the client expects and has space for, it works to their satisfaction.

We keep 4 T-4 on a bumper, flip it upside down on a 24" x 45" wheel board.  There is enough room to put another 4 T-4 (hooked together in a flat line) face to face with the other speakers.  We put a packing blanket between them.  On the back side of the first stack we have an area above the bumper, so we put a piece of filler plywood on the bumper and creatively stack 3 JBL SRX712m.  We have a 2nd wheel board where we do the same with the T-4, and put a 4th 712M on the back along with a power amp for the monitors and a small box with the AC power and signal jumpers.

Right now we're using JBL JRX118SP for subs.  They are on an Aux send, but I'm experimenting with looping through the sub first, and sending the HPF signal to the T-4 and the other way around, running a full range signal from the T-4 down the pick to the sub.  With 4 top boxes, I turn the sub down about 3dB and get a nice "American" sub sound with a little haystack around 50Hz.  For rock I'd do things differently (like bring a couple of 4880 subs and an I-Tech).

No experience yet with louder, rock-ish gigs but those are coming.  When we have more experience with the T-4 I'll write a review.

Back to your original decision - I like JBL products but haven't used the STX line yet and can't make a comparison, but in the cabaret scenario above, the original specification called for KF850.  A rendering was done and we looked at the sight line issues a ground stack of big PA would cause.  We worked with the client and they decided a "line" array would be fine.  From a sound standpoint I can't compare them in that space, but from a casino guest and entertainer standpoint the flown "dash" (not a full line, you see ) array makes for a better experience.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Tim, I have always taken your posts with respect.
And while I almost decided on the STX, I am going to have start from scratch tomorrow!

Thanks a super ton for taking the time.

Regards,
Sidhu

[Nitin Sidhu]

Also,

We keep 4 T-4 on a bumper, flip it upside down on a 24" x 45" wheel board.  There is enough room to put another 4 T-4 (hooked together in a flat line) face to face with the other speakers.  We put a packing blanket between them.  On the back side of the first stack we have an area above the bumper, so we put a piece of filler plywood on the bumper and creatively stack 3 JBL SRX712m.  We have a 2nd wheel board where we do the same with the T-4, and put a 4th 712M on the back along with a power amp for the monitors and a small box with the AC power and signal jumpers.

  Maybe I need a pik ?

[Bob Leonard]

Nitin,
The JBL rig will do 4-600 waterbags out of the box. I have heard the 835s, and I like them enough that my mind keeps wandering to a fire sale for the 725s I use. They do sound better, more like the VP series (835).

[Tim McCulloch]

Also,

  Maybe I need a pik ?

I'll see about getting pics when the rig comes back.

My open questions about the T-4 include "how well does it scale, really?"  I need to experiment with (and measure) what the little system/EQ control really does as I think the Composer predictions aren't showing what my ears tell me.  We've had the rig for a couple of weeks (half of it, anyway, the rest just arrived) and it's been out so I haven't had a chance to measure it in situ.

The SRX725/735 were good speakers and I take Bob Leonard's high praise for the STX835 as trustworthy.  I can't make judgments about how 4 T-4 sound compared to an 835 powered by Macro5k, but my gut feeling is that the STX will out-run the T-4 in the mids and lows.  That said, the DashArray was pretty solid down to about 90Hz , but how much long term level can be had is unknown to me.  Again, it's a gut thing, not based in measurement or aural comparisons.

If I had to ground stack, my choice would be the STX.  If it flies more often than it stacks, I'd take the T-4 (unless more long term output was needed).  The T-4 sounds very different when stacked on top of subs vs. flown.  Stacked, the T-4 has a pronounced "icepick in the forehead" sound that, ironically, I associate with JBL products from decades back.  In fairness, most ground stacked line array setups have this issue to some degree, it was just the way it reminded me of JBL that made it noteworthy.

See if you can demo the systems and deliberately misapply both of them so you have an understanding of how they'll perform when customers ask you to do silly things.

[Bob Leonard]

I have never heard the T-4 Tim, but would have no doubt concerning their capabilities based on your word.

Your thoughts and observations concerning the older JBL boxes is of course spot on. What I see / hear is a JBL movement towards a better sounding box, and if I were to bet my paycheck, I might bet that the STX835 was purposely built in the shadows of the VP series, a series I have long admired and would own if not for the $6-7K price tag per box. It seems to me that the STX series is JBLs push to bring VP series performance to the masses while following the tried and true formula they've used for the SRX line. One day I'll be in your neighborhood, and I'll expect a tour.

[Spenser Hamilton]

Nitin,
The JBL rig will do 4-600 waterbags out of the box. I have heard the 835s, and I like them enough that my mind keeps wandering to a fire sale for the 725s I use. They do sound better, more like the VP series (835).

How do the 835 compare to the 725 output wise?

We did a little over 1000 with four 725s last Sunday.

[ProSoundWeb Community]