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Author Topic: Eminence Lab 12C High Power 12" Subwoofer Speaker Driver 4 Ohm  (Read 15037 times)

Jeff Bailie

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Eminence Lab 12C High Power 12" Subwoofer Speaker Driver 4 Ohm
« on: February 22, 2013, 10:00:22 am »

Has anyone seen the new Lab 12 driver?   It says it has a 4 ohm load rating and it can handle a little more power...     

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=290-668
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Art Welter

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Re: Eminence Lab 12C High Power 12" Subwoofer Speaker Driver 4 Ohm
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2013, 06:36:20 pm »

Has anyone seen the new Lab 12 driver?   It says it has a 4 ohm load rating and it can handle a little more power...     

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=290-668

I think the 12C is aimed at  car sub use, where a single speaker with low impedance is more useful, and all they look at is power ratings.
The 500 watt Lab 12C is only 3.11 ohms DC (compared to 400 watt 4.29 ohms for the Lab 12).
In most horn and bass reflex designs the DC resistance is pretty close to the impedance minima.

At 1.55 ohms for a pair in parallel, even some 2 ohm rated amps will cough with that load.

The Lab motor is not very effective at getting rid of heat, my guess is very little (if any) output would be gained using the extra power the 12C can take, due to thermal compression.
Best case with no thermal compression given an extra 100 watts would only be 1 dB more output in the upper range, but no increase down low, as Xmax is no greater for the 12C.

Art
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duane massey

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Re: Eminence Lab 12C High Power 12" Subwoofer Speaker Driver 4 Ohm
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2013, 11:29:16 am »

But..but..Art, it's 100watts more! 100 WATTS!!!
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Duane Massey
Technician, musician, stubborn old guy
Houston, Texas

Jeff Bailie

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Re: Eminence Lab 12C High Power 12" Subwoofer Speaker Driver 4 Ohm
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2013, 07:15:01 am »

I think the 12C is aimed at  car sub use, where a single speaker with low impedance is more useful, and all they look at is power ratings.
The 500 watt Lab 12C is only 3.11 ohms DC (compared to 400 watt 4.29 ohms for the Lab 12).
In most horn and bass reflex designs the DC resistance is pretty close to the impedance minima.

At 1.55 ohms for a pair in parallel, even some 2 ohm rated amps will cough with that load.

The Lab motor is not very effective at getting rid of heat, my guess is very little (if any) output would be gained using the extra power the 12C can take, due to thermal compression.
Best case with no thermal compression given an extra 100 watts would only be 1 dB more output in the upper range, but no increase down low, as Xmax is no greater for the 12C.

Art

I have a few questions;

-How does an amp keep up with the 2 Ohm Load of a much more powerful Subwoofer such as a DBH218 with 2 4 ohm divers?

-Could you maybe wire all of your labhorn cabinets in series and hook up 4 of them to a single channel of a huge amp like a Lab Gruppen PLM20000q?



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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Eminence Lab 12C High Power 12" Subwoofer Speaker Driver 4 Ohm
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2013, 07:45:13 am »

I have a few questions;

-How does an amp keep up with the 2 Ohm Load of a much more powerful Subwoofer such as a DBH218 with 2 4 ohm divers?

-Could you maybe wire all of your labhorn cabinets in series and hook up 4 of them to a single channel of a huge amp like a Lab Gruppen PLM20000q?
The Danley DBH218 (and all other larger Danley subs) have a locking impedance switch on the rear panel.  It allows you to choose how you want to run the sub in YOUR application.

In the case of the DBH218-it is either a single 2 ohm load or 2x4 ohm loads.

Which ones is best for you?  It depends.  What is the music style (HUGE differences there)?  How long are the cable runs?  What type of amp do you have?

I would say that for most serious applications people use a single amplifier per channel and run each driver on a seprate amp channel.  The amp is much happier then and less loss across the cable.
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Ivan Beaver
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Jeff Bailie

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Re: Eminence Lab 12C High Power 12" Subwoofer Speaker Driver 4 Ohm
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2013, 11:18:32 pm »

The Danley DBH218 (and all other larger Danley subs) have a locking impedance switch on the rear panel.  It allows you to choose how you want to run the sub in YOUR application.

In the case of the DBH218-it is either a single 2 ohm load or 2x4 ohm loads.

Which ones is best for you?  It depends.  What is the music style (HUGE differences there)?  How long are the cable runs?  What type of amp do you have?

I would say that for most serious applications people use a single amplifier per channel and run each driver on a seprate amp channel.  The amp is much happier then and less loss across the cable.

Yes, I understand this...  Art was saying that the Lab12C Driver was a bad idea for Labhorns due to the low impedance when run in parallel.   Do you experience the same issue when you run the DBH218 really hard in 2 ohm mode?   

Just so everyone knows, I am not trying to squeeze more DB out of my Labs.  I am just curious. 
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Jeff Bailie

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Re: Eminence Lab 12C High Power 12" Subwoofer Speaker Driver 4 Ohm
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2013, 11:30:27 pm »

The Danley DBH218 (and all other larger Danley subs) have a locking impedance switch on the rear panel.  It allows you to choose how you want to run the sub in YOUR application.

In the case of the DBH218-it is either a single 2 ohm load or 2x4 ohm loads.

Which ones is best for you?  It depends.  What is the music style (HUGE differences there)?  How long are the cable runs?  What type of amp do you have?

I would say that for most serious applications people use a single amplifier per channel and run each driver on a seprate amp channel.  The amp is much happier then and less loss across the cable.

Hey Ivan,  How would you run 12 Labhorns?  I am currently using 6 PLX3602.  I am not unhappy with them. however,  I would like to move to more quality amps in preparation for more powerful sub cabinets in the future. I would like to save space and weight of course.  I am considering Lab Gruppen PLM stuff because of all the fun new toys on board. 

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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Eminence Lab 12C High Power 12" Subwoofer Speaker Driver 4 Ohm
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2013, 07:25:21 am »

Hey Ivan,  How would you run 12 Labhorns?  I am currently using 6 PLX3602.  I am not unhappy with them. however,  I would like to move to more quality amps in preparation for more powerful sub cabinets in the future. I would like to save space and weight of course.  I am considering Lab Gruppen PLM stuff because of all the fun new toys on board.
If you are wanting to move to larger amps-then go ahead.  Having headroom is never a bad thing-just set your limiters correctly.

"How to run" is s wide open question.  There are many different ways-and the answers will depend on a lot of variables-such as cable distance-current available for the amps-type of music material etc.

If you want "THE BEST" way-then I would say to run each driver on its own amp channel that is rated around 3000 watts @ 4 ohms.  So that would be a dozen amps for 12 cabinets.  The amps will be nice an happy-you should not be tripping breakers-assuming each amp is on its own breaker and you would have plenty of headroom for peaks.

And also have the possibility of totally tearing up all the drivers if things get out of control.  Headroom and damage potential go hand in hand.  The more of one you have-you get more of the other for free.

If you say that is to expensive-then now you have started to compromise-and you have to determine which is the best compromise for your situation and what you do.

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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Jeff Bailie

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Re: Eminence Lab 12C High Power 12" Subwoofer Speaker Driver 4 Ohm
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2013, 04:22:20 pm »

If you are wanting to move to larger amps-then go ahead.  Having headroom is never a bad thing-just set your limiters correctly.

"How to run" is s wide open question.  There are many different ways-and the answers will depend on a lot of variables-such as cable distance-current available for the amps-type of music material etc.

If you want "THE BEST" way-then I would say to run each driver on its own amp channel that is rated around 3000 watts @ 4 ohms.  So that would be a dozen amps for 12 cabinets.  The amps will be nice an happy-you should not be tripping breakers-assuming each amp is on its own breaker and you would have plenty of headroom for peaks.

And also have the possibility of totally tearing up all the drivers if things get out of control.  Headroom and damage potential go hand in hand.  The more of one you have-you get more of the other for free.

If you say that is to expensive-then now you have started to compromise-and you have to determine which is the best compromise for your situation and what you do.

ohh yes... That is what I'm talking about.

 I have been running the same system for a few years now. I have learned a lot about the dynamics of my particular system. I have decided to get into some new gear just to keep myself sharp.  I am very interested in Lake Processing.  I think it will give me a chance to more fully understand some of the finer ins and outs of signal flow.   I think with ISVPL and some of the other forms of limiting in the Lake system I should be able to get a good grasp of how to run a system with double or triple over rms without damaging drivers.

currently I am running my system limited 1 dB shy of clip on everything. All my amps are just powerful enough to draw rms. And everyone thinks its the best sound they have ever heard...  haha.  I know its not.  There is so much more for me to learn.  The kids in the crowd are just used to listening to the i inch tweeters in they're laptop computers.

thanks Ivan, your knowledge is always appreciated.
 
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Eminence Lab 12C High Power 12" Subwoofer Speaker Driver 4 Ohm
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2013, 06:24:35 pm »

ohh yes... That is what I'm talking about.

 I have been running the same system for a few years now. I have learned a lot about the dynamics of my particular system. I have decided to get into some new gear just to keep myself sharp.  I am very interested in Lake Processing.  I think it will give me a chance to more fully understand some of the finer ins and outs of signal flow.   I think with ISVPL and some of the other forms of limiting in the Lake system I should be able to get a good grasp of how to run a system with double or triple over rms without damaging drivers.

currently I am running my system limited 1 dB shy of clip on everything. All my amps are just powerful enough to draw rms. And everyone thinks its the best sound they have ever heard...  haha.  I know its not.  There is so much more for me to learn.  The kids in the crowd are just used to listening to the i inch tweeters in they're laptop computers.

thanks Ivan, your knowledge is always appreciated.
If available-I prefer 3 types of limiters-peak (fast attack), "average" or continuous (1/2 of lowest freq attack) and powercompression (typically 1/4-1/2 half continuous power and SLOOOOOOW attack on the range of 3-4 seconds.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
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PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Eminence Lab 12C High Power 12" Subwoofer Speaker Driver 4 Ohm
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2013, 06:24:35 pm »


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