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Author Topic: They keep making the same errors  (Read 7417 times)

Joseph D. Macry

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They keep making the same errors
« on: February 18, 2013, 11:54:21 am »

Despite several emails and meetings over the past few years, we keep getting specs from one particular architect that keep repeating the same mistakes.
One of the funnier ones: They specify "OptiPlex SP820A" as the gymnasium speaker. I know full well that they mean "OctaSound" by KDM. "OptiPlex" is a model of Dell computer. I have one at my desk. Tempted to mount it high above center court.
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Joseph Macry,
Austin, TX

Ivan Beaver

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Re: They keep making the same errors
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2013, 01:11:34 pm »

Despite several emails and meetings over the past few years, we keep getting specs from one particular architect that keep repeating the same mistakes.
One of the funnier ones: They specify "OptiPlex SP820A" as the gymnasium speaker. I know full well that they mean "OctaSound" by KDM. "OptiPlex" is a model of Dell computer. I have one at my desk. Tempted to mount it high above center court.
And getting the name wrong is only THE FIRST mistake----------------------------------------------
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

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Danley Sound Labs

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Rob Spence

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They keep making the same errors
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2013, 04:00:04 pm »

Yow!
I would not feel good about folks miss details like that, more than once.
What else isn't right, or won't be?



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rob at lynxaudioservices dot com

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Tim Perry

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Re: They keep making the same errors
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2013, 04:14:22 pm »

I don't see Basketball deflection guard on the Octiplex accessory group.
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Brad Weber

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Re: They keep making the same errors
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2013, 04:19:19 pm »

Despite several emails and meetings over the past few years, we keep getting specs from one particular architect that keep repeating the same mistakes.
One of the funnier ones: They specify "OptiPlex SP820A" as the gymnasium speaker. I know full well that they mean "OctaSound" by KDM. "OptiPlex" is a model of Dell computer. I have one at my desk. Tempted to mount it high above center court.
Well, you know what they mean and they apparently aren't going to change so maybe that works in your favor.  When I was on the contracting side we had several owners and consultants that we worked with regularly and over the first few projects we got to know their way of doing things and could account for that, giving us an advantage.

For example, there was one consultant where we would almost automatically assume all the custom plates needed to be larger since their CAD tech seemed to think that if you could fit the connectors on the front view of the plate then it worked even if you did not account for the size of the connector on the rear of the plate, the open area of the box or any clearances for actually inserting and removing the connectors.  But we also knew that they would have no problem with our doing that so we didn't have to worry about it potentially being an issue later on.

Another possibility is that the school district or someone like that identified that specific product complete with errors and the Architect is reluctant to change it.  I've been involved in being asked to turn someone else's design or equipment list into a 'biddable' document package and you have to be careful of correcting assumed or real mistakes as you may then assume liability.  If someone asks for a Model XYY and I know they mean XYZ and correct it myself then if the Model XYZ does not work as expected it may be my problem.

Of course most likely is that the systems are apparently getting bid and built so they don't see it as an issue worth addressing.
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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: They keep making the same errors
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2013, 04:35:21 pm »

Well, you know what they mean and they apparently aren't going to change so maybe that works in your favor.  When I was on the contracting side we had several owners and consultants that we worked with regularly and over the first few projects we got to know their way of doing things and could account for that, giving us an advantage.

For example, there was one consultant where we would almost automatically assume all the custom plates needed to be larger since their CAD tech seemed to think that if you could fit the connectors on the front view of the plate then it worked even if you did not account for the size of the connector on the rear of the plate, the open area of the box or any clearances for actually inserting and removing the connectors.  But we also knew that they would have no problem with our doing that so we didn't have to worry about it potentially being an issue later on.

Another possibility is that the school district or someone like that identified that specific product complete with errors and the Architect is reluctant to change it.  I've been involved in being asked to turn someone else's design or equipment list into a 'biddable' document package and you have to be careful of correcting assumed or real mistakes as you may then assume liability.  If someone asks for a Model XYY and I know they mean XYZ and correct it myself then if the Model XYZ does not work as expected it may be my problem.

Of course most likely is that the systems are apparently getting bid and built so they don't see it as an issue worth addressing.

Chimbley.
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Joseph D. Macry

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Re: They keep making the same errors
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2013, 02:50:48 pm »

Yow!
I would not feel good about folks miss details like that, more than once.
What else isn't right, or won't be?



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The specified DSP package:
1 dbx-231 graphic EQ, plus Symetrix SymNet Express 8x8.

Specified annoucer's microphone: "cardioid dynamic microphone with integrated on/off switch shall be Bogen model HDO100." I'll let you look that one up.
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Joseph Macry,
Austin, TX

Joseph D. Macry

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Re: They keep making the same errors
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2013, 02:54:22 pm »

Well, you know what they mean and they apparently aren't going to change so maybe that works in your favor.  When I was on the contracting side we had several owners and consultants that we worked with regularly and over the first few projects we got to know their way of doing things and could account for that, giving us an advantage.

For example, there was one consultant where we would almost automatically assume all the custom plates needed to be larger since their CAD tech seemed to think that if you could fit the connectors on the front view of the plate then it worked even if you did not account for the size of the connector on the rear of the plate, the open area of the box or any clearances for actually inserting and removing the connectors.  But we also knew that they would have no problem with our doing that so we didn't have to worry about it potentially being an issue later on.

Another possibility is that the school district or someone like that identified that specific product complete with errors and the Architect is reluctant to change it.  I've been involved in being asked to turn someone else's design or equipment list into a 'biddable' document package and you have to be careful of correcting assumed or real mistakes as you may then assume liability.  If someone asks for a Model XYY and I know they mean XYZ and correct it myself then if the Model XYZ does not work as expected it may be my problem.

Of course most likely is that the systems are apparently getting bid and built so they don't see it as an issue worth addressing.

How this came about: Architect asked our competitor to write a set of specs for a school gym, then they keep copying and pasting the error-ridden result into successive projects. Specs were written by owner, not qualified tech. This guy has heard of various pieces of gear, but does not know what they do nor how. He once specified SM-58s as hanging choir mics.
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Joseph Macry,
Austin, TX

Brad Weber

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Re: They keep making the same errors
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2013, 03:38:09 pm »

How this came about: Architect asked our competitor to write a set of specs for a school gym, then they keep copying and pasting the error-ridden result into successive projects. Specs were written by owner, not qualified tech. This guy has heard of various pieces of gear, but does not know what they do nor how. He once specified SM-58s as hanging choir mics.
Much more common than some might expect and not always unintentional.  One company around here had a reputation for years if not decades for offering free 'design services' to Owners and Electrical Engineers through which they would generate documents that were so incomplete and filled with so many errors and vague references that it discouraged anyone else from bidding.  And if they did have to compete then that allowed them to interpret the documents however it benefited them.  As long as Owners and Engineers accepted that they continued to work that way.

Supporting that is that many school districts seem more intent on doing the same thing every time than on doing the best thing every time. One school district handed us the Architect's plans and an equipment list, wanting us to adapt the same equipment list to whatever the Architect developed for each different school regardless of how much the schools or spaces actually varied.  Or the school district that asked us not do too good a job since while they wanted to try to address problems they encountered in some of the older schools, they didn't want the new school facilities to be too noticeably improved.  I had one school district that they asked us to see how much better we could do with the same budget and then literally came back and asked us to step back on what we developed since the improvements would be too obvious.  Then there was the Electrical Contractor that convinced the School District owner to direct us to revise our designed system for a thrust stage theatre to use a single Octasound speaker and a mixer/amp in a closet since that was what they always used in the gymnasiums and thus should work for the physically smaller theatre space (we declined and terminated the relationship).
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BenGibbs

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Re: They keep making the same errors
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2013, 08:03:02 pm »

I don't have much experience with architects and consultants, but I recently had a consultant on a current project continue to state that the 100v speakers they had installed would have a 6 ohm load at the wall socket, and we could go to any hifi shop and get an amp that would work. They had also specified that the wall plates should be RCA sockets, but luckily the av integrators just went ahead and put in speakon sockets anyway.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: They keep making the same errors
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2013, 08:03:02 pm »


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