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[Ivan Beaver]

Look, there aren't very many things that the experienced here agree on but I think I can safely say we would agree on something along these lines:

Unless or until a HOW has the capability to optimize the performance of the gear they already have their primary goal needs to be on achieving technical competence not buying gear.

That being said I like a good game of what would you have as much as anybody. If I suddenly had to go buy a new rig for your application my system taking cost, performance, portability, size and durability into consideration would be something like:

Behringer X32 with two digital boxes and eight person personal monitoring system  $5000-6000
Eight sets of earbuds a mix of Westone UM1, and Shure SE215 $800-850
One pair of EV ZX3-60   $2000
or one pair of JTR Triple eights $2400
four EV ZX1 subs  $2000
or one pair of JTR Growler   $2000
One Crown XTI6002 for subs $2000
One Crown XTI4002 for tops $1000
Mics, cables, stands, covers, racks, misc   $4000-5000

$17500-20000

Electrical demand two 15a circuits on stage one at FOH. No mains power running all over the place. Figure 60lbs for the amp rack and the subs as the heaviest pieces. Haul it in a full size SUV. Store in a standard coat closet. Break out the tool dip color code the cables and the tech and one go'fer could set this up including mics in 30 minutes.

Or put another way-there is no "magic bullet" that you can buy from a store.

Experience and knowledge are the keys to being successful at ANYTHING.  Toys are nice-in the PROPER hands-but can cause more damage than good in the hands of somebody who doesn't understand how to use them.

[Michael Kim]

I definitely hear what you all are saying about having in-house expertise, and it's something I'm working on increasing. Sincere thanks for all the advice and input you've already given. I would like to think that I have a decent ear (having formal musical training), but have less experience (being on the young side probably). I would love to have had years of listening to this speaker vs. that speaker and being able to form my own conclusions, but that's just not something my experience has afforded me thus far.

In that vein, I'm not against bringing in a professional in the least. I think of my posts here as potentially helping me have a more solid knowledge basis to communicate with someone if the church agrees to it.

Does anybody have suggestions for someone in the NYC metro area?

Also appreciated would be a ball park figure for having someone come in for a consult.

@Brad: I get something like 90 at about 10 ft back from the stage in the center. I'm more worried about if pushing the max wattage from the Crown 802 through EV SX100+'s. The extra wattage of the ZX3's (and amp) would be to just get headroom back.

@Samuel: This only ties in with the GLD system correct? There'd be no synergy/setup advantage with the ZED line right?

@Jerome: Any chance you can dig up that link?

Thanks everyone!

[Samuel Rees]

@Samuel: This only ties in with the GLD system correct? There'd be no synergy/setup advantage with the ZED line right?

I have not used this system, just read about it here on the main PSW site at the same time I was reading your thread. It does work directly with the A&H GLD Monitor port, but it is apparently based on the Aviom A-net and is compatible with those networks. The product line has a hub that can take input from Dante and some other input types as well which seems interesting. I have not used it, but as long as we were listing Aviom alternatives it seemed like it should be mentioned especially in the midst of its release.

[Brad Weber]

@Brad: I get something like 90 at about 10 ft back from the stage in the center. I'm more worried about if pushing the max wattage from the Crown 802 through EV SX100+'s. The extra wattage of the ZX3's (and amp) would be to just get headroom back.

The SX100+ is rated at 200W/400W/800W and 8 Ohms nominal/6 Ohms minimum.  The XLS802 is rated at 500W into 8 Ohms and 800W into 4 Ohms but those are also at 1kHz.  So the speakers should handle the full amp output provided you keep it out of clipping and don't push it hard for long times.  Also possibly relevant, if you thinking turning down the level controls limit the output they do not, they simply change the signal level needed to get that output, however the amp is always capable of its full output.

If you are getting low levels in the center up front that may be more of a coverage than output issue.  Try looking at the pattern and aiming of the speakers and also consider that when looking at potential replacements.

[Bob L. Wilson]

I'm more worried about if pushing the max wattage from the Crown 802 through EV SX100+'s. The extra wattage of the ZX3's (and amp) would be to just get headroom back.

EVs power ratings are known for being somehwere between accurate and conservative. I had the scale of an event blow up and ended up outside without subs driving our four SX500+ full range (with just the 40HPF from a EV Xp200a) with four Clair C-1000M. I ran the wheels off the amps with the impending clip lights winking all afternoon trying to cover an audience that was sitting 200 ft away from the stage on a hill side to get out of the broiling sun. Clair used to claim 3 db headroom for those amps above the 1000 watts into 8 ohms continuous rating. I fed them peak signals of 2.5 to 5 times EV's continuous rating and the high frequency protection circuit in the speakers never engaged. Like Brad said as long as you don't square the wave your combination is safe.

[Michael Kim]

Thanks for your take on the EVs. Good to know they are rated as advertised.

One lingering question and one new one:

Does anybody know anybody that does consultations in Manhattan?

One of our other church sites has a set of EV Qrx 115/75's that they are looking to upgrade. From what I've read, they compare favorably to the ZX3, with slightly better quality and better efficiency. They also seem to have a built in 15 degree downward angle, which would work nicely for my purposes. That being said, they are 15 inch drivers, which might cause more overlap with the sub. Curious to hear your guy's thoughts on if that's a good option. (Sub-questions: stick with the xti4002 or drop to the xti2002 to power them?)

@Bob: What's the rationale for 4 subs in the space? Seems like overkill at first glace?

[Jerome Malsack]

The SX100+ is rated at 200W/400W/800W and 8 Ohms nominal/6 Ohms minimum.  The XLS802 is rated at 500W into 8 Ohms and 800W into 4 Ohms but those are also at 1kHz.  So the speakers should handle the full amp output provided you keep it out of clipping and don't push it hard for long times.  Also possibly relevant, if you thinking turning down the level controls limit the output they do not, they simply change the signal level needed to get that output, however the amp is always capable of its full output.

If you are getting low levels in the center up front that may be more of a coverage than output issue.  Try looking at the pattern and aiming of the speakers and also consider that when looking at potential replacements.

don't forget you might have a power alley down the center line.

[cliff truesdell]

One of your issues is setting up and tearing down per service, have you considered self powered speakers? Maybe something like KW line or similar. Just a thought.

[Michael Kim]

I actually find the passive speakers to be less of a hassle setting up. My praise team is pretty good (and I've also been very intentional about training them). We've been setting up and breaking down for 3 years now, so we're pretty quick at it. I find passive cabinets lighter as well, which is an added bonus. I just put that in the lead to let everyone know that permanent/hung solutions are not realistic in our space.

One of your issues is setting up and tearing down per service, have you considered self powered speakers? Maybe something like KW line or similar. Just a thought.

[Bob L. Wilson]

@Bob: What's the rationale for 4 subs in the space? Seems like overkill at first glace?

Two front loaded 12" speakers in small boxes can only do so much. The design of the ZX1 has advantages for a portable church setup at about 1/4 the volume and 1/3 the weight of something like a Danley TH112 but the tradeoff is more are necessary to produce reasonable output.

I actually find the passive speakers to be less of a hassle setting up.

plus Fire Marshall's and insurance companies are not known for being big fans of extension cords.

[ProSoundWeb Community]