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Author Topic: Unusual "how loud" question -- realistic gunfire  (Read 12187 times)

John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Unusual "how loud" question -- realistic gunfire
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2013, 02:15:55 pm »

Yup, 99% (?) of audience probably never heard real gunfire, and the 1% probably wore hearing protection, so it is not about realism, but meeting their expectation of what it sounds like from TV/Movies.

Being good enough to support the illusion, and not take the audience out of the moment, by sounding incongruous. Real gunfire SPL might hurt more than help the illusion.

JR
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Riley Casey

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Re: Unusual "how loud" question -- realistic gunfire
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2013, 03:10:55 pm »

Not directly related to how loud your gunshot efx need to be but an example of stellar sound design meets dramatic content.  In the Band of Brothers TV series a group of soldiers is walking on patrol at in a forest bantering away as the war is almost over.  One soldier comments " It sure is quiet", they all stop and another soldier agrees.  The next sound is the snick, snick snick of half a dozen safeties being switched off on their M1s.   Very quiet, very subtle and just about the scariest and most effective set up for fear I've ever seen in a movie.

Bob Leonard

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Re: Unusual "how loud" question -- realistic gunfire
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2013, 04:22:20 pm »

Each and every rifle, mortar, rocket or bomb has a sound of it's own and it's a sound that many will recognize immidiately. The more recent movies have done a great job of capturing the actual sound of todays, and yesterdays, weapons. Eastwood did a great job in his movies by capturing and recording the actual sounds of every weapon seen on the screen (with Heil mics by the way). But if you want people to understand the fear of weapons there also needs to be a concussive effect which is almost impossible to acheive without some very, very high SPL. Ma duece is scary in real life (and my combat medic daughters favorite weapon) depending on which end you're looking at. 150db is just about right if you're within 5-6 feet of the gun. Real in this situation is what you can make it with the tools at hand. 1000lb bombs?? You'll know you're close to reality when people wet their pants.
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Lee Douglas

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Re: Unusual "how loud" question -- realistic gunfire
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2013, 04:27:22 pm »

I had an idea that I know I will never follow thru with so I will share it here. I want to make a prop gun or a device that goes onto a prop that when the trigger is pulled it sends a wireless pulse to a sampler to playback that devices sound effect. It is just a matter of putting together existing parts. Something like a subminiature garage door remote that triggers the sampler.

Linear has some great radio Tx/Rx sets that would be easy to incorporate into props:

http://www.linearcorp.com/radio_control.php

Pump the output(s) into one of these:

http://www.midisolutions.com/prodf8.htm

Program that and then MIDI out to a sampler and you're in business!
« Last Edit: February 13, 2013, 04:43:33 pm by Lee Douglas »
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Art Welter

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Re: Unusual "how loud" question -- realistic gunfire
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2013, 05:09:26 pm »

Yup, 99% (?) of audience probably never heard real gunfire, and the 1% probably wore hearing protection, so it is not about realism, but meeting their expectation of what it sounds like from TV/Movies.
JR,
With the USA median of gun ownership approaching 40%, and many states having ownership levels above 50%, far more than 1% have heard live gunfire.
There are a lot of hunters, police, military,  crooks, plinkers, and their offspring using guns.
 
In my small town, closer to 99% have heard real gunshots, though many probably mistook them for firecracker noise.
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kristianjohnsen

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Re: Unusual "how loud" question -- realistic gunfire
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2013, 05:13:27 pm »


You could suggest a conservative gunfire level, and a slowly decaying ringing sound (usually around 3-4KHz, a couple sine wave tones with some tight reverb works well) in silence afterward to simulate the threshold shift and tinitus we experience after unprotected gunshots.

+1  Good suggestion Mr Art "Foley" Welter :)

PS:  Guns are really loud.  Even if army training protocol suggests double hearing protection at all times; in the real world...
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kristianjohnsen

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Re: Unusual "how loud" question -- realistic gunfire
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2013, 05:20:28 pm »

I like the idea of trying to mimic the threshold shift that occurs.. the dominant sensation after very loud noises is how quiet it suddenly gets, where you don't hear anything around you. This will be difficult in a theater since you can't easily squelch audience noise, unless you artificially pump some surround sound ambient noise into the audience that you can manipulate off.  A constant background ambient sound that suddenly goes completely away might work.  or not... just throwing out ideas.

=====
Loudest noise I recall hearing was in the green machine back in the '70s when they doubled us up on the points of a rifle range to do our annual M-16 qualification, then had us empty the full 18 round clip in rock and roll (full automatic)...  I had bummed some cigaret butts to stick in my ears as plugs, but probably damaged a few cilia that day.. At least the whole group was able to qualify for the year in a few seconds. :-(

Hopefully you will have actual samples of the weapons listed as they can have a distinctive sound signature related to repetition rate in automatic, etc. There will even be differences related to how they are fired (squeezing off small bursts, single shots, etc).

A very LF thumper, like sensaround might help for feel of mortar/explosion realism, without hurting people.
 
JR

I was also suprised several times at how different the same gun sounds at different angles, both the hand guns and the belt fed ones.  Especially when laying a bunch of people in a row at the range where sometimes we'd do the "pop one off when the guy to your right just has" exercise.  The side with the ejector slot is a lot more "bassy" than the other side.

PS:  Luckily, the only angle I didn't get to hear what sounds like was the muzzle side!!!
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Unusual "how loud" question -- realistic gunfire
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2013, 05:50:07 pm »

I've never actually heard a .50 up close, or far away, for that matter.

The loudest gun I've ever heard was a .454 Casull handgun. I was in a 10 firing point indoor range when he started to shoot. I had to leave the range even though I wear double protection, custom earmolds with 30dB headsets over them. I'm pretty sure the doors opened a little each time he fired. When I made it clear I didn't want my time out of the range to count against my bill the owner said not to worry, the guy with the Casull couldn't stay in there with it very long either. He only fired about a dozen rounds. It was really loud. Being in the range with a .50 Desert Eagle is tame compared to the Casull.

I've been up close to most of the .30 cal variations, but outdoors where the shock is not so intense. I was at an outdoor range where someone was shooting a Rigby double rifle 10 positions away under a corrugated steel roof. It was probably a .416 or .470 cal. It was also very loud. Something you want to get away from.

I'm guessin' artillery puts those handguns and rifles to shame. Fortunately I've never been exposed to it.

Mac
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Unusual "how loud" question -- realistic gunfire
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2013, 07:20:52 pm »

JR,
With the USA median of gun ownership approaching 40%, and many states having ownership levels above 50%, far more than 1% have heard live gunfire.
There are a lot of hunters, police, military,  crooks, plinkers, and their offspring using guns.
 
In my small town, closer to 99% have heard real gunshots, though many probably mistook them for firecracker noise.
;D I stand corrected.  100% of the people in my house know what several weapons sound like.


JR
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Art Welter

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Re: Unusual "how loud" question -- realistic gunfire
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2013, 07:28:58 pm »

The loudest gun I've ever heard was a .454 Casull handgun. I was in a 10 firing point indoor range when he started to shoot. I had to leave the range even though I wear double protection, custom earmolds with 30dB headsets over them.
Mac
The stapedius reflex, AKA acoustic reflex reduces level from loud impulse noise.
As well as being far louder than most rounds,  the .454 Casull bullet is supersonic, so your ear's acoustic reflex to the actual bullet "sonic boom" would not happen in time to protect itself. 
Indoors, that might add another 20 dB of perceived loudness "reverb" over a usual subsonic 45 caliber round .
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Re: Unusual "how loud" question -- realistic gunfire
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2013, 07:28:58 pm »


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