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[Rich O'Hanlon]

Hey guys, I'm looking for a guitar amp DI box with speaker simulation. In particular, I'm looking for a product like the H&K Red Box, (discontinued), that takes a line level input from the amp rather than speaker output. I think I understand the benefits of products like the Radial JDX, (that balance the signal from the amp with the signal from the speaker), but the advantage of the Red Box and the line level input, is that it provides a constant volume level in our IEM mix even if I turn up the master volume on my stage amp. I've looked all over for a new or used Red Box without any luck. Does anyone know if there's a comparable product out there?

[Bob Leonard]

http://www.hughes-and-kettner.com/products.php5?id=110

[Chip Sciacca]

best i have heard !

http://www.mercenary.com/pdi09figudib.html

[Ed Walters]

the advantage of the Red Box and the line level input, is that it provides a constant volume level in our IEM mix even if I turn up the master volume on my stage amp.

Stupid question department:
If you are on IEM's, why the heck are you turning up your stage volume?

The whole point of IEM's is to REDUCE stage volume, not give you an excuse to crank it more.  If you can't hear it in your ears, fix the mix (or mixer -- and I don't mean the sound board).

Ed Walters

[Rich O'Hanlon]

Stupid question department:
If you are on IEM's, why the heck are you turning up your stage volume?

The whole point of IEM's is to REDUCE stage volume, not give you an excuse to crank it more.  If you can't hear it in your ears, fix the mix (or mixer -- and I don't mean the sound board).

Ed Walters

Decent point Ed, but we don't use IEM's purely to reduce our stage volume. The main advantage for us is the clarity of personal monitor mix. Also, the venues we play range significanty and often, I'm not using the FOH for my guitar at all, so the DI to board connection is purely for IEM mix and in these cicumstances amp volume will start low early in the evening and increase as the night progresses and I'm looking for a solution that won't screw with out IEM mix. Hope that answers your question. (not stupid at all by the way). Thanks for the other two replies - much appreciated.

[Chip Sciacca]

well the IEM will still change if you use the box between the amp and cabinet which is the way it sounds the best.

[Luke Geis]

Some sends from amps are right off the speaker out and will change in level with respect to the master out of the amp. If the DI box can regulate ( bleed excess volume ) volume, I could see the benefits. I don't see that being the case unless the box is active?

These units are kinda the bee's knee's:

http://www.palmergear.com/pdi03.shtml

http://www.palmergear.com/pga04.shtml

http://www.two-notes.com/en/hardware/torpedo-cab/

[Bob Leonard]

The Palmer, yes. The 2 notes, not so much.

[Ned Ward]

I owned two of the Red Boxes that I bought used, the original and the Mark 3. Like the Radial JDX, both are inserted inline to the speakers and present a mic-level output. Not a load box, so you can't use them alone.

Not sure who told you the level out of the Red Box would stay the same if you turn up your amp - that's just wrong. More power into the speaker out jack into the Red Box/JDX means a hotter mic-level signal - it's not an attenuator, just a speaker tap with fancy EQ filters to simulate your cab(s).

Given that it's a mic-level signal with no volume reduction and they don't sound all that good (I sold both of mine after using them once and vomiting from how shitty they sounded), I'd just stick a 57/906/PR31BW on it. It will sound 5 million times better.

[Mark McFarlane]

...I sold both of mine after using them once and vomiting from how shitty they sounded, I'd just stick a 57/906/PR31BW on it. It will sound 5 million times better.

Anyone try a Radial JDX?

[Ned Ward]

Mark - thanks. I should have qualified I was speaking of the H&K red Boxes. While I haven't tried the JDX, I'm sure it will sound better then a red box, but not better than a mic'd cab.

[gordonmcgregor]

Mark - thanks. I should have qualified I was speaking of the H&K red Boxes. While I haven't tried the JDX, I'm sure it will sound better then a red box, but not better than a mic'd cab.

Not as cheap as a DI but it works well both with and without a speaker

http://www.adamhall.com/en/Products_and_Categories/Palmer_MI_EINS_-_Full_Tube_Guitar_Amplifier_1W.htm

[Ned Ward]

Gordon - I have a similar amp with my Dr. Z Mini Z.  5 watt EL84, with an attenuator that takes it down to 1/2 a watt. sounds great and for recording at home without waking the rest of the family. On stage... well let's just say you would need very good monitoring, and then you can also forget about any stage volume to speak of. Which in some instances can be good but at our lower level, we need a little more amp sound than 5 watts.

And Bob, don't worry about my Fenders getting lonely at home - the Bandmaster and the Z are both on through an ABY switch for playing and recording...

[gordonmcgregor]

Gordon - I have a similar amp with my Dr. Z Mini Z.  5 watt EL84, with an attenuator that takes it down to 1/2 a watt. sounds great and for recording at home without waking the rest of the family. On stage... well let's just say you would need very good monitoring, and then you can also forget about any stage volume to speak of. Which in some instances can be good but at our lower level, we need a little more amp sound than 5 watts.

And Bob, don't worry about my Fenders getting lonely at home - the Bandmaster and the Z are both on through an ABY switch for playing and recording...

The point about the Palmer Eins is that it has a speaker sim built in and it has a line out you can take to an amp or DI box, there is no need for a speaker cab as it has a dummy load built in. It's had great reviews and I'm thinking of getting one for guitarists to use when Im out with choirs in smallish venues were I already DI the guitar to keep stage noise down, I think it'll be better than any DI box only solution G

[Rich O'Hanlon]

I owned two of the Red Boxes that I bought used, the original and the Mark 3. Like the Radial JDX, both are inserted inline to the speakers and present a mic-level output. Not a load box, so you can't use them alone.

Not sure who told you the level out of the Red Box would stay the same if you turn up your amp - that's just wrong. More power into the speaker out jack into the Red Box/JDX means a hotter mic-level signal - it's not an attenuator, just a speaker tap with fancy EQ filters to simulate your cab(s).

Given that it's a mic-level signal with no volume reduction and they don't sound all that good (I sold both of mine after using them once and vomiting from how shitty they sounded), I'd just stick a 57/906/PR31BW on it. It will sound 5 million times better.

I did manage to find an H&K RedBox Pro and it does EXACTLY what I was hoping it would. There's an option to use either speaker OR a line level input and when I connected the amp's line out to the RedBox to the PA I could adjust the the guitar amp volume without any change to volume levels in either our IEM mix or FOH. The beauty for us is a CONSTANT guitar volume level in our IEM mix which makes for a very happy band.

[Bob Leonard]

I don't think I've seen the RB pro. What's the difference between that and the RB classic from my forst post?

[Ned Ward]

Rich - can you throw up a link to the specific Red Box you have? What you're describing in terms of the unit outputting a constant output level regardless of amp volume definitely  wasn't a feature on either of mine (i believe i had the Mk III and Pro) although that would have been nice.

Bob - pro version did away with the cab EQ option switch. Otherwise should be the same.

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