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Author Topic: Turbo TMS4 opinions  (Read 12416 times)

Steve Payne

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Re: Turbo TMS4 opinions
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2013, 01:45:02 pm »

not very loud?

135db peak on 900w <-factory data sheet.

They are old, but triamped as part of a quad system with modern digital processing I think they'd likely sound pretty good. Looks like the 18 isn't horn loaded, or truly horn loaded, so pattern control falls off below 250, and they don't go low at all.

You won't be able to ever use these for a national rider, but as an owner of a ~3 decade old system bands used to playing on MI gear will be blown away from the clarity you'll be able to achieve.

I'd fit a sub, preferably horn loaded, below them (well lots of subs). say 30-35Hz -> 60-70Hz

Tri-Amping will get you more control of the X-over from M to HF, but then you've got to be good with the settings, and set you limiters up right.

in bi-amp mode looks like a GX5 for the M/H and a GX7 for the Lows. (limited properly of course- and there's thousands of others, these are just cheap and roughly in the right power range)

This is not an investment, If you get them cheap enough you can make some money off them, but I wouldn't think that you could build a business model around them.

You don't want to hurt the drivers, re-cones are likely either scarce or expensive, or both.

Good luck!

Nick, Loud is a relative thing.  You've got lot's of good suggestions for the OP.  They are all of course, basically putting lipstick on a pig.  But I am sure you know that.  I have the same TMS4 brochure/spec sheet tucked into my bottom right hand desk drawer.  It's been there a long time.  It may say 135db peak, but I spent about 4 years in the driver's seat of a 16 box TMS4 rig.  It was bi-amped and without subs, exactly as it was designed to be used. Turning it into a quad amped 4way system as you suggest would surely make it better, but nonetheless the Fane 10s are the Achilles heal. A system is only as good as it's weakest link.  If you try to push these boxes and get them "loud", get out your check book.  Maybe Jim Brooks will chime in on this.  He ran a TMS4 system configured much as you are suggesting, I believe.  He now runs an Aspect Wide system, which is Turbo's wide dispersion, "low output" version of an Aspect.  It would be interesting to hear his comments.  I ran a 16 box TMS4 rig, followed by an 18 box Floodlight rig, followed by an 18 box Aspect 880 rig and currently have a 32 box Flex rig.  I can tell you that everytime I moved to the next generation Turbo rig I pickup up about 6db real world usable output.  Really.  And so I stand by my statement, the TMS4s will not play very loud.  I asked the OP what his application will be.  If he is going to be providing for bar bands that are used to MI level gear, he should be able to make them very happy.
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Zachary Zimmerman

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Re: Turbo TMS4 opinions
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2013, 03:46:11 pm »

Nick, Loud is a relative thing.  You've got lot's of good suggestions for the OP.  They are all of course, basically putting lipstick on a pig.  But I am sure you know that.  I have the same TMS4 brochure/spec sheet tucked into my bottom right hand desk drawer.  It's been there a long time.  It may say 135db peak, but I spent about 4 years in the driver's seat of a 16 box TMS4 rig.  It was bi-amped and without subs, exactly as it was designed to be used. Turning it into a quad amped 4way system as you suggest would surely make it better, but nonetheless the Fane 10s are the Achilles heal. A system is only as good as it's weakest link.  If you try to push these boxes and get them "loud", get out your check book.  Maybe Jim Brooks will chime in on this.  He ran a TMS4 system configured much as you are suggesting, I believe.  He now runs an Aspect Wide system, which is Turbo's wide dispersion, "low output" version of an Aspect.  It would be interesting to hear his comments.  I ran a 16 box TMS4 rig, followed by an 18 box Floodlight rig, followed by an 18 box Aspect 880 rig and currently have a 32 box Flex rig.  I can tell you that everytime I moved to the next generation Turbo rig I pickup up about 6db real world usable output.  Really.  And so I stand by my statement, the TMS4s will not play very loud.  I asked the OP what his application will be.  If he is going to be providing for bar bands that are used to MI level gear, he should be able to make them very happy.

Steve that is exactly my intentions smaller bar and djing gigs where I need good accurate sound for smaller venues I can't and don't want to compete with you or the other guys of your magnitude in the state I'm more looking to fill a smaller but not speaker on sticks market in the area


And also guy If I do go this route I will be adding sub boxes to the mix most likely double 18 horn loaded subs

What kind of replacement for the drivers are out there? i know the fanes no longer exist and rc kits for the originals are not practical even if you can find them. I have read that the HF are not to hard to find but what about the other two drivers are there replacements out there that work well in the boxes.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Turbo TMS4 opinions
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2013, 04:37:13 pm »

but what about the other two drivers are there replacements out there that work well in the boxes.
If I am not mistaken-the woofer is a EV EVM18B.  You should be able to get kits for those easily and pretty cheap (as compared to some other recone kits.).  I would get the 18B proline kit-since the voice coil has additional "treatment" on it.  Of course you won't turn it into a proline without the heatsink-but it is a step up from the regular kit.
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Simon Ryder

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Re: Turbo TMS4 opinions
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2013, 05:06:28 pm »

Nick, Loud is a relative thing.  You've got lot's of good suggestions for the OP.  They are all of course, basically putting lipstick on a pig.  But I am sure you know that.  I have the same TMS4 brochure/spec sheet tucked into my bottom right hand desk drawer.  It's been there a long time.  It may say 135db peak, but I spent about 4 years in the driver's seat of a 16 box TMS4 rig.  It was bi-amped and without subs, exactly as it was designed to be used. Turning it into a quad amped 4way system as you suggest would surely make it better, but nonetheless the Fane 10s are the Achilles heal. A system is only as good as it's weakest link.  If you try to push these boxes and get them "loud", get out your check book.  Maybe Jim Brooks will chime in on this.  He ran a TMS4 system configured much as you are suggesting, I believe.  He now runs an Aspect Wide system, which is Turbo's wide dispersion, "low output" version of an Aspect.  It would be interesting to hear his comments.  I ran a 16 box TMS4 rig, followed by an 18 box Floodlight rig, followed by an 18 box Aspect 880 rig and currently have a 32 box Flex rig.  I can tell you that everytime I moved to the next generation Turbo rig I pickup up about 6db real world usable output.  Really.  And so I stand by my statement, the TMS4s will not play very loud.  I asked the OP what his application will be.  If he is going to be providing for bar bands that are used to MI level gear, he should be able to make them very happy.

With modern processing, they can sound pretty decent.

You can expect around 100db+ at 15 meters out of a single box running pretty much flat out. For pro standard rock and roll, I would be looking for 110dB+ at the same distance.

You could upgrade the 10" in it - but that would drastically alter the character of the box.

Subs wise, a pair of TSW721 under each box would be ideal as a match and give a very decent height to the stack.

It may be that this box works well for you, though trying a pair of Floodlights would not be a bad idea if you can
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Zachary Zimmerman

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Re: Turbo TMS4 opinions
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2013, 06:53:14 pm »

With modern processing, they can sound pretty decent.

You can expect around 100db+ at 15 meters out of a single box running pretty much flat out. For pro standard rock and roll, I would be looking for 110dB+ at the same distance.

You could upgrade the 10" in it - but that would drastically alter the character of the box.

Subs wise, a pair of TSW721 under each box would be ideal as a match and give a very decent height to the stack.

It may be that this box works well for you, though trying a pair of Floodlights would not be a bad idea if you can


But again with the "LOUD" issue would 4 or 6 a side in a 100 to 800 person venue not be enough stacked on 4 2x18 horn loaded subs a side not be enough for a DJ
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Turbo TMS4 opinions
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2013, 10:06:07 pm »



But again with the "LOUD" issue would 4 or 6 a side in a 100 to 800 person venue not be enough stacked on 4 2x18 horn loaded subs a side not be enough for a DJ

With a nominal coverage of 70 x 60, how do you propose to stack and aim them?  Do you need 140 of horizontal coverage?
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Zachary Zimmerman

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Re: Turbo TMS4 opinions
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2013, 10:13:04 pm »

With a nominal coverage of 70 x 60, how do you propose to stack and aim them?  Do you need 140 of horizontal coverage?

It is a wide room and the stage is kinda of "god wing" to the whole room so I will have people beside the stage   

T if this T represents the stage I have people on both sides of the vertical line and my pa would be pointing away from the T at the base of the T

I know it's a weird venue
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Steve Payne

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Re: Turbo TMS4 opinions
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2013, 09:53:44 am »



But again with the "LOUD" issue would 4 or 6 a side in a 100 to 800 person venue not be enough stacked on 4 2x18 horn loaded subs a side not be enough for a DJ

Zachary,
  Just some thoughts from a guy who has logged thousands of hours on various Turbo rigs.  If "LOUD" is on your list of performance needs, the TMS4 should not be a consideration.  It will not get "LOUD".  It will toast the 10" in frustration trying.  If you are considering tri-amping a TMS4 and putting subs under it, then consider using a Turbo rig that was designed that way from the ground up.  Floodlight is a MUCH better box than TMS4.  Sharing the bandwidth between a 12" and 6.5" that a TMS4 asks a 10" to handle makes all the difference.  Clarity and SPL improve dramatically.  A much better sounding system.  Horizontal pattern control is also much better with the Floodlight.  In many ways, you can think of the TMS series as a prototype for the Floodlight.  General sound characteristics are the same, but every aspect of performance is greatly improved.  A major consideration also is that replacement parts for TMSs are non existent.  To the best of my knowledge, you can still get kits and diaphragms for Floodlights.  A Floodlight with a pair of 721s under it is a pretty respectable system.  I haven't bought or sold any in quite a while, but I would guess current market value is in the +/- $800 US each.  I don't mean to rain on your parade if you have found TMS4s at a great price, but I want to make sure you have your eyes wide open. If you decide to go the TMS4 route, 1. You will almost surely find their limitations sooner rather than later.  2.  When you find that limit, (the 10") you will have to replace it with something other than the custom Fanes originally used which substantially alter the sound. At that point, you will no longer have TMS4s.  Wishing you success with whatever you decide.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 04:51:59 pm by Steve Payne »
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Zachary Zimmerman

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Re: Turbo TMS4 opinions
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2013, 09:35:18 pm »

Zachary,
  Just some thoughts from a guy who has logged thousands of hours on various Turbo rigs.  If "LOUD" is on your list of performance needs, the TMS4 should not be a consideration.  It will not get "LOUD".  It will toast the 10" in frustration trying.  If you are considering tri-amping a TMS4 and putting subs under it, then consider using a Turbo rig that was designed that way from the ground up.  Floodlight is a MUCH better box than TMS4.  Sharing the bandwidth between a 12" and 6.5" that a TMS4 asks a 10" to handle makes all the difference.  Clarity and SPL improve dramatically.  A much better sounding system.  Horizontal pattern control is also much better with the Floodlight.  In many ways, you can think of the TMS series as a prototype for the Floodlight.  General sound characteristics are the same, but every aspect of performance is greatly improved.  A major consideration also is that replacement parts for TMSs are non existent.  To the best of my knowledge, you can still get kits and diaphragms for Floodlights.  A Floodlight with a pair of 721s under it is a pretty respectable system.  I haven't bought or sold any in quite a while, but I would guess current market value is in the +/- $800 US each.  I don't mean to rain on your parade if you have found TMS4s at a great price, but I want to make sure you have your eyes wide open. If you decide to go the TMS4 route, 1. You will almost surely find their limitations sooner rather than later.  2.  When you find that limit, (the 10") you will have to replace it with something other than the custom Fanes originally used which substantially alter the sound. At that point, you will no longer have TMS4s.  Wishing you success with whatever you decide.

Steve thanks for your great information you have a wealth of knowledge on these topics
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Steve Payne

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Re: Turbo TMS4 opinions
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2013, 11:05:06 pm »

Steve thanks for your great information you have a wealth of knowledge on these topics

There are lots of folks here that know a whole lot more than me about a whole lot of things audio.  I just happen to have a lot of practical experience with Turbosound speaker systems.
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Re: Turbo TMS4 opinions
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2013, 11:05:06 pm »


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