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Author Topic: Turbo TMS4 opinions  (Read 12415 times)

Zachary Zimmerman

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Turbo TMS4 opinions
« on: February 02, 2013, 03:40:34 pm »

Hello everyone I am looking at getting a tms4 rig together does anyone have thoughts on it. I'm looking for a starter rig.   And should I go with tms4 should I bypass the internal crossover and go with active type of system.   I'm also looking for amp recommendations.  Thank guys  8)
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Jack keaton

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Re: Turbo TMS4 opinions
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2013, 07:53:00 pm »

Hello everyone I am looking at getting a tms4 rig together does anyone have thoughts on it. I'm looking for a starter rig.   And should I go with tms4 should I bypass the internal crossover and go with active type of system.   I'm also looking for amp recommendations.  Thank guys  8)

first thing is look up what "active type of system" means. Then read about what crossovers/BI and TRI amping are.
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Zachary Zimmerman

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Re: Turbo TMS4 opinions
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2013, 09:37:37 pm »

first thing is look up what "active type of system" means. Then read about what crossovers/BI and TRI amping are.

Ok to specify should I tri amp them and use an xta or bss mini drive processor
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Turbo TMS4 opinions
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2013, 09:42:20 pm »

Ok to specify should I tri amp them and use an xta or bss mini drive processor
And as with all loudspeakers-the end result is not dependent on bi or tri amped, but rather HOW WELL the actual alignment is done.

A poorly done bi or triamped loudspeaker can easily sound worse than a passive.

Just using a "processor" does not guarantee better results-despite what many think.  As with all things-it is not so much the tool-but rather how well you use it -that determines the final result.
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Zachary Zimmerman

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Re: Turbo TMS4 opinions
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2013, 09:56:15 pm »

And as with all loudspeakers-the end result is not dependent on bi or tri amped, but rather HOW WELL the actual alignment is done.

A poorly done bi or triamped loudspeaker can easily sound worse than a passive.

Just using a "processor" does not guarantee better results-despite what many think.  As with all things-it is not so much the tool-but rather how well you use it -that determines the final result.

No doubt about that I have smaart 7 and the tools to properly set up the processor my main question is can I get more out of them by tri amping them or should I just set them up in the factory configuration
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Steve Payne

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Re: Turbo TMS4 opinions
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2013, 01:54:30 am »

first thing is look up what "active type of system" means. Then read about what crossovers/BI and TRI amping are.

I am sure you know that the TMS4 dates back 5 generations in the Turbosound evolution.  They sounded pretty good in their day, but a lot of advances have been made since then.  By todauy's standards, the TMS4's will not play very loud, whether bi or tri amped.  What is your application?
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Turbo TMS4 opinions
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2013, 10:52:29 am »

No doubt about that I have smaart 7 and the tools to properly set up the processor my main question is can I get more out of them by tri amping them or should I just set them up in the factory configuration
Since you have the "tools" to properly measure them, then why not go ahead and measure them and then repo9rt back to us.

As Steve said-the TMS4 is an old box and the processing available back then was very different than it is now.   We can do a lot more now.

I think it would be a good experiment to try a couple of different setups and show the data.

That is the BEST way.  Unless you are using "period" processing-any guesses would be purely that-and not based on facts.

But my guess is that going triamped would yield the best results-because you will better control over the time aspect-since the drivers are all separated in time-some adjustment is probably needed.  "Back in the day" that was not so easily done.
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Nick Enright

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Re: Turbo TMS4 opinions
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2013, 11:35:00 am »

I am sure you know that the TMS4 dates back 5 generations in the Turbosound evolution.  They sounded pretty good in their day, but a lot of advances have been made since then.  By todauy's standards, the TMS4's will not play very loud, whether bi or tri amped.  What is your application?

not very loud?

135db peak on 900w <-factory data sheet.

They are old, but triamped as part of a quad system with modern digital processing I think they'd likely sound pretty good. Looks like the 18 isn't horn loaded, or truly horn loaded, so pattern control falls off below 250, and they don't go low at all.

You won't be able to ever use these for a national rider, but as an owner of a ~3 decade old system bands used to playing on MI gear will be blown away from the clarity you'll be able to achieve.

I'd fit a sub, preferably horn loaded, below them (well lots of subs). say 30-35Hz -> 60-70Hz

Tri-Amping will get you more control of the X-over from M to HF, but then you've got to be good with the settings, and set you limiters up right.

in bi-amp mode looks like a GX5 for the M/H and a GX7 for the Lows. (limited properly of course- and there's thousands of others, these are just cheap and roughly in the right power range)

This is not an investment, If you get them cheap enough you can make some money off them, but I wouldn't think that you could build a business model around them.

You don't want to hurt the drivers, re-cones are likely either scarce or expensive, or both.

Good luck!
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Turbo TMS4 opinions
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2013, 12:18:30 pm »


 Looks like the 18 isn't horn loaded, or truly horn loaded, so pattern control falls off below 250, and they don't go low at all.

"Horn loading" takes on 2 different "aspects".  One is as an acoustic transformer which increases the sensitivity of the driver.  The other is as a "waveguide" which controls the coverage pattern of the sound.  Sometimes one or the other is utilized and sometime both at the same time-depending on the design-driver size etc.

One very misunderstood concept is that by simply sticking a driver on a "horn" it gets louder.  It can-up to a certain freq at which the size of the driver feeding it is to large.  At that point no more "horn gain" can be had (from the acoustic transformer action).  But by narrrowing the pattern the output can increase.

Horns can also only provide gain down to a certain freq (determined by expansion rate and mouth size).  So in a way a horn is a "bandpass" device.  It is how well the top and bottom ends are controlled that affects the effective benefits.

Typically bass horns (yes there are a very few exceptions) do not control the pattern and are just acoustic transformers.

The pattern control comes from the midrange and HF devices.  Below that the sound is pretty much becoming omni-as would be expected.

The "horn" that the 18" is loaded onto is typical of Turbosound devices-and not like other types of horns.  It is also short-which greatly affects the low freq extension.  Also "back in the day" we did need to go as low as we do now-the musical demand simply wasn't there.
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Art Welter

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Re: Turbo TMS4 opinions
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2013, 01:13:29 pm »

The "horn" that the 18" is loaded onto is typical of Turbosound devices-and not like other types of horns.  It is also short-which greatly affects the low freq extension.  Also "back in the day" we did need to go as low as we do now-the musical demand simply wasn't there.
The TMS 4 bass horn design is similar to many short "bent" or folded horns.
Although 45 Hz is not particularly low by today's standards, there are many that still feel it is "low enough".

To put it in perspective, the "old"  TMS 4 has the same low corner and roll off as the "new" DSL ML 412, AKA the IHOP.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 10:54:18 am by Art Welter »
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Re: Turbo TMS4 opinions
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2013, 01:13:29 pm »


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