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Author Topic: How can this even bother me?  (Read 11979 times)

g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: How can this even bother me?
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2013, 07:12:17 pm »

hmm... the end of the world as we know it...

 read my mind, or not.

JR

OK.  I'm done.  Turn the page, please. ;D
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: How can this even bother me?
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2013, 07:16:22 pm »

Well put Mark, but only a small part of the equation. It's not a matter of who can make a better product, or which country has the biggest brain trust. American industry has given it's time, money, expertise, and industrial might away.

The now reversing trend was to push products off shore and into the hands of low cost labor, regardless of education or ability. After a period of years our path led to the strengthening of once poor economies providing not only a route, but a need for those countries to embrace technology as they had never done in the past. Embracing technology requires further education which America has, in most cases, provided as well. The american public was blind sided by it's own greed and agreements, NAFTA being one. The loss of entry level jobs has further eroded our abilities by eliminating a path for the average high school graduate to follow, paths in the past were entered by obtaining an entry level manufacturing job, or job associated with manufacturing. From the ore in the ground to the finished product America has slowly given away it's abilities to the detriment of everyones quality of life. Everything is cyclic and those jobs will eventually come back as America works smarter. Too bad that won't happen in my lifetime.
Not quite sure where to start... Expanding free trade is generally a good thing that rasies the wealth of both countries (or three countries in the case of NAFTA).

I fear we are guilty of confusing "association" with cause and effect.

Some folks in power saw that home owners had a better life, so they figured making everybody a home owner who wanted to and could make an X mark on a piece of paper could get their wish (we know how that turned out).  :o

Another similar flawed association is that college graduates earn more money over their lifetime, and "had a better life"... So presto, college loans for everybody... Now we have a surfeit of college graduates. living back at home with mom and dad, jobless, but with a huge college loan debt, so they couldn't buy a house even with the old rulz...

There is no simple answer, and globalization raises the standard of living for poor workers (over there) far more than it drops ours (here).

We are suffering from self inflicted wounds, and keep signing up for more.

I take solace in being older so I won't have to watch the end game for the path we are on.

Of course maybe I'm all wrong...

JR
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Josh Billings

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Re: How can this even bother me?
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2013, 07:36:48 pm »

Correct me if I'm wrong here...but doesn't Behringer now OWN Midas now?
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Bill McKelvey

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Re: How can this even bother me?
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2013, 09:14:19 pm »

Correct me if I'm wrong here...but doesn't Behringer now OWN Midas now?
Sort of . . . . Music Group owns Behringer and Midas
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Loren Aguey

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Re: How can this even bother me?
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2013, 11:11:49 pm »

I find myself upet by all the posts concerning the new CHEAP "consoles"...
How can a line up of new products made cheaply by the cheaply assembled robots in the cheapest of the cheap factories even garner our attention? I mean really?!?

Well if at any point you read any of said posts you would see that people, myself included, are for the most part extremely happy with the X32 and the support from Behringer. The one I put in my club gig came with in input card not fully seated and I didn't have channels 9-16 and 25-32. A behringer rep personally showed up at the club, we opened up the desk and he re-seated the cards and all was well. He also had a loaner desk ready to give me in case the desk had to be sent back. That is service, and an indication of a company who actually cares about having satisfied customers.

Our SC48 also came with the desk not seeing seeing one of the output cards, and fat chance getting someone from Avid to show up and address the issue.

Whose to say that a company can't take a stride towards better products and service? It appears to me that is what Behringer is doing.

I was never a Behringer fan, and never wanted to see their gear anywhere on my gigs. But I'm now a huge fan of the X32, and its workflow. It was the absolute perfect solution for our club where we do lots of multi-track recordings. And I would find it pretty tough to argue that it is not a well designed mixer. The feature set you get at the price is ridiculous, and it puts a desk with a pro feature set in the hands of people who otherwise might not have been able to afford it, my club being one of many examples. 

So yes, its actually a pretty big deal in our industry.


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Tim McCulloch

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Re: How can this even bother me?
« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2013, 12:11:54 am »

Our SC48 also came with the desk not seeing seeing one of the output cards, and fat chance getting someone from Avid to show up and address the issue.

There was a time when you might get a DigiDesign person, in person.   From Avid?  Uh...

That said, I've had uniformly positive interaction with Avid's Venue phone support techs.  They bat 1000 for me.
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Loren Aguey

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Re: How can this even bother me?
« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2013, 12:39:14 am »

There was a time when you might get a DigiDesign person, in person.   From Avid?  Uh...

That said, I've had uniformly positive interaction with Avid's Venue phone support techs.  They bat 1000 for me.

Yes, to be fair, they were helpful over the phone and Sheldon was helpful online as well. However I was not remotely interested in opening up that desk by myself.
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Nick Simon

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Re: How can this even bother me?
« Reply #27 on: February 04, 2013, 11:36:11 am »

really, just how long DID the Y's and S's get away with charging you an arm and a leg for a hard drive, some faders, and some software, just because they could?
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: How can this even bother me?
« Reply #28 on: February 04, 2013, 12:20:58 pm »

really, just how long DID the Y's and S's get away with charging you an arm and a leg for a hard drive, some faders, and some software, just because they could?
At the risk of pointing out the obvious, Behringer bough Midas, not the other way around. High prices do not automatically translate to high profits. More often high prices are caused by small company inefficiency and the need to recapture NRE (tooling/design overhead) from a smaller denominator (sales volume), so a too conservative approach to pricing kills the product, a too risky approach to pricing kills the company. 

The X-32 phenomenon is not simply about a fair price for electronic innards that have been falling in cost for years, but a leap of faith that the right price point would generate high enough sales volume to support that lower price. Uli has recently bragged about selling 30k units, so I suspect he may have exceeded even his own expectations, while he clearly ramped up for large enough scale production to hit those numbers. The good news (for him)  is that he was already large enough that he didn't have to bet his entire company on this one new product, but it was a significant gamble that he appears to have won with.

JR
 
PS: I suspect Yamaha lost money for years pioneering the digital console business, while in hind sight they were not aggressive enough to get this high volume prize. This is still early innings for this game. The next few years will be interesting since this substantial market sector is no longer hypothetical. 
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Nick Simon

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Re: How can this even bother me?
« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2013, 02:01:03 pm »

JR, I kinda understand the business side of it.  Just to sort of put it in perspective (what I meant), I remember back eons ago when the VCR first came out (or plasma tvs for that matter) The price was like $600+ for a unit that had a wired remote, one head and could only record one show at a time,. (same with plasma, a basic 50" was about $9k), but even as the technology got better, the price dropped. I paid like $450 for my first VCR similar to the one described Two years later, they had all the bells and whistles for a c-note, and now obsolete (I just got a 51" plasma smart tv with 3D for waaay less than a grand). ... but you can bet that the manufacturers were charging as much as they could, for as long as they could, before somebody stepped in with something better for cheaper.   Volume rules in this economy...
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Re: How can this even bother me?
« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2013, 02:01:03 pm »


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