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Author Topic: Soundcraft Si Expression - Desk to compete with Behringer, Presonus, etc  (Read 43826 times)

Samuel Rees

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Soundcraft Si Expression - Desk to compete with Behringer, Presonus, etc
« Reply #50 on: January 27, 2013, 03:25:17 pm »

This is the reason when a few years ago when I was faced with the option to go digital, I chose a used LS9. Not because it sounds good (it doesn't) not because it's user friendly (it isn't) and not because its cheap (it certainly wasn't). I chose it because it stood on a solid foundation.

Sure it has bugs, but I can rent a replacement from anywhere. Conversely, I'm always cross-renting to other companies because the know exactly what they're getting. Every BE knows how to mix on it (even if they complain about it). And if I sold it today it would only be for about $500 less than I bought it for since I got it used. Sure it cost more up front, but I easily made back the $500 it cost for me to own this console up until now.

I really don't see these cheap MI consoles effecting the price of "real" consoles (even if my little LS9 is at the bottom of the "real console" list.)

Think the GLD could be a bit of a "new" LS9? It seems set up to be, some serious pros around here have picked them up. They sort of held that spot previously with the analog GLs.
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Tom Burgess

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Re: Soundcraft Si Expression - Desk to compete with Behringer, Presonus, etc
« Reply #51 on: January 27, 2013, 06:54:50 pm »

Does anyone know if you have to buy two cards to use the mini stage box with the Expression? Or does the stage box come with a card installed?
I'm pretty certain that a card is included although I don't have the info with me at the moment.
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If the band sounds great, it's because the band IS great, if the band sound like crap, it's the soundman's fault.

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Samuel Rees

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Soundcraft Si Expression - Desk to compete with Behringer, Presonus, etc
« Reply #52 on: January 28, 2013, 12:36:30 pm »

Sorry if I come off spiteful, everyone, just a frustrating situation. I much prefer to have warm and fuzzy feelings about the company that produces my expensive things!
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Brandon Wright

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Re: Soundcraft Si Expression - Desk to compete with Behringer, Presonus, etc
« Reply #53 on: January 28, 2013, 02:49:32 pm »

This is the reason when a few years ago when I was faced with the option to go digital, I chose a used LS9. Not because it sounds good (it doesn't) not because it's user friendly (it isn't) and not because its cheap (it certainly wasn't). I chose it because it stood on a solid foundation.

Sure it has bugs, but I can rent a replacement from anywhere. Conversely, I'm always cross-renting to other companies because the know exactly what they're getting. Every BE knows how to mix on it (even if they complain about it). And if I sold it today it would only be for about $500 less than I bought it for since I got it used. Sure it cost more up front, but I easily made back the $500 it cost for me to own this console up until now.

I really don't see these cheap MI consoles effecting the price of "real" consoles (even if my little LS9 is at the bottom of the "real console" list.)

So, two weeks ago the Si Compact was a "real" console right inline with the LS9. Now that they changed its color and cut the cost it is no longer a real console? Heck,IMO it's arguably better with 66 channels to mix.

Two weeks ago I was sold on the GLD, but now that I can get the same functionality for $2000-3000 dollars less it is kind of a no brainer. I can deal with the shelves on the high and low bands and the lack of scribble strips. Board tape is easier anyway. The main feature I will miss is the ability to mix a single input across all mixes during soundcheck. Oh well, I'll push the extra button. On an aesthetics note, I love the expression's 5d style leds around the encoders.

I mix on LS9's and m7's on an almost daily basis, and I would not call them anymore "real" than an si compact/si expression. (This is for my purposes only. If riders are an issue this statement is null and void.)
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Samuel Rees

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Re: Soundcraft Si Expression - Desk to compete with Behringer, Presonus, etc
« Reply #54 on: January 28, 2013, 03:16:24 pm »

Two weeks ago I was sold on the GLD, but now that I can get the same functionality for $2000-3000 dollars less it is kind of a no brainer. I can deal with the shelves on the high and low bands and the lack of scribble strips. Board tape is easier anyway.

Wow, mind blown. That is the polar opposite of everything I'm thinking about this! Haha I guess "YMMV". I feel more positive about the GLD than ever after this release, and I own an Si Compact. It has seriously increased functionality over the Si Expression (and compact). VCAs, real groups, double the FX processors (8), built in aviom/personal mixer support, scribble strips, separate input and output fader banks, fully parametric EQ including lo pass filters (huge). I also think scribble strips are a huge deal. I don't think its a big problem on the Si or anything, but its certainly a valuable feature I'm willing to pay money for in the general sense.

I'm not saying the Si Expression is a bad product at all - I'm just saying GLD is just a higher end product, more features cost more money.

I think the GLD looks better than ever. Its not ankle-biting, they're confident with their prices and features despite all the crazy price changing in the area. Unlike Soundcraft who had to panic price slash.
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Brandon Wright

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Re: Soundcraft Si Expression - Desk to compete with Behringer, Presonus, etc
« Reply #55 on: January 28, 2013, 04:08:19 pm »

Wow, mind blown. That is the polar opposite of everything I'm thinking about this! Haha I guess "YMMV". I feel more positive about the GLD than ever after this release, and I own an Si Compact. It has seriously increased functionality over the Si Expression (and compact). VCAs, real groups, double the FX processors (8), built in aviom/personal mixer support, scribble strips, separate input and output fader banks, fully parametric EQ including lo pass filters (huge). I also think scribble strips are a huge deal. I don't think its a big problem on the Si or anything, but its certainly a valuable feature I'm willing to pay money for in the general sense.

I'm not saying the Si Expression is a bad product at all - I'm just saying GLD is just a higher end product, more features cost more money.

I think the GLD looks better than ever. Its not ankle-biting, they're confident with their prices and features despite all the crazy price changing in the area. Unlike Soundcraft who had to panic price slash.

Hi Samuel,

I see your points, and my post is really specific to my purposes: Small bands that rarely exceed 24 inputs. I agree that when I'm mixing a band with more than 30 or so inputs, DCA's become a necessity. Also, I won't ever use the personal monitoring feature. The Si Compact 2 has 20 freely assignable faders, just like the gld (albeit only in a single bank). Again I agree with the fully parametric EQ, but the hi-lo shelving never really hindered me on an analog console.

Ultimately from a ROI standpoint, the gld wouldn't allow me to make any more money or pick up any more shows. The Si Expression provides me with all the features I need (Channel count, digital snake, I/O options, small footprint, etc....) for thousands less. From what I've seen an Si Expression with 32/16 stagebox should come it around 6 grand, whereas a gld with equal I/O capabilities would be roughly 9 grand.
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RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS

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Re: Soundcraft Si Expression - Desk to compete with Behringer, Presonus, etc
« Reply #56 on: January 28, 2013, 09:40:57 pm »

Wow, mind blown. That is the polar opposite of everything I'm thinking about this! Haha I guess "YMMV". I feel more positive about the GLD than ever after this release, and I own an Si Compact. It has seriously increased functionality over the Si Expression (and compact). VCAs, real groups, double the FX processors (8), built in aviom/personal mixer support, scribble strips, separate input and output fader banks, fully parametric EQ including lo pass filters (huge). I also think scribble strips are a huge deal. I don't think its a big problem on the Si or anything, but its certainly a valuable feature I'm willing to pay money for in the general sense.

The GLD is a heck of a lot more console than you could imagine.  You really need to sit down at one for several hours and go through all the features and you will love it.  Trust me, I liked it so much I bough a second one.  My first one paid for itself completely in new business and increased prices in about six months.

Regardless of sound quality, of which the GLD is excellent, the features are great. 

The fader banks are NOT "input" and "output" banks,  Any input and any output can be put on any fader of any layer of either bank.  YOu can have the same input or output on as many faders or layers or banks as you like.  Who needs a "Special" channel when you can have it where ever you want it.

The Scribble strips take just a couple seconds to type in or you can make some preset names and just asign those very easily with the touch of the screen.

The effects are great sounding and many have "Expert" functions that let you really dig in and get exactly what you want.

The EQs are nice and it is sometimes hard to tell that they are working, even though you know they are.  They sound very tranparent.  Now with the new Firmware coming out shortly there will be three different types of graphic EQs.  The Normal graphic that is there now, one that has a very similar color to a Klarke Unit and one that is a Hybrid of the two.  Also coming soon to a GLD near you....Multiband Compression!

I got to spend some quality time with Carey Davies talking about some of the GLD's functions and some features that we could really use in the real world.  He also explained a lot about the DSnake achitecture and how the network works and how the DSP architecture allocates resources and why some things are very easy to implement and others near impossible.

If Carey is able to implement a couple of the suggestions that I gave then the console is going to be super duper handy!

Someone in this thread mentioned approximate pricing of Around $9K.  I think that it would be a bit above that when shipping is included but the console is still the best thing in it's price range.

Of course the IPad App will be free and available pretty quickly.  That will make us all happy.  I asked him about an offline editor and did not get any good news nor any bad news with regards to one.  Obviously they had their programmers working really hard on the new ILive Firmware and now on the GLD Firmware/App so maybe after that we'll see something.
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Brandon Wright

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Re: Soundcraft Si Expression - Desk to compete with Behringer, Presonus, etc
« Reply #57 on: February 12, 2013, 02:31:34 pm »

Just an update that I thought anyone interested in buying this console might appreciate.

This is a quote that was posted by soundcraft on their facebook page, take it for what it is worth.

 "The Mini Stageboxes will come with a MADI card fitted and a card for the console in the box. The MSB 32 will have Optical or Cat5 versions to choose from, the MSB 16 will be Cat5 only."

Talk about price cuts, considering that the MADI cards are nearly a grand on their own.
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Kent Clasen

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Apologies if this has been covered, but I can't seem to find on the Soundcraft site/downloads, does this console have the ability to use a Buss/Mix/Aux as a sub group/fixed send?  If so, can you put the Master fader for sub groups on any layer?

Thanks!
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Samuel Rees

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Apologies if this has been covered, but I can't seem to find on the Soundcraft site/downloads, does this console have the ability to use a Buss/Mix/Aux as a sub group/fixed send?  If so, can you put the Master fader for sub groups on any layer?

Thanks!

Yes, to an extent. There is no setting like on an LS9 to make the buss 'fixed', but you can simply assign the aux the the LR or Mono output busses. The only issues are that pans will not follow, you'll have to configure them a second time when assigning the channel to the bus, and because there is no 'fixed' mode you'll need to make the buss post fader and bring it faders to assign the channels you want to it at unity. The fader layers are fully configurable - anything goes anywhere.
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