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Author Topic: Soundcraft Si Expression - Desk to compete with Behringer, Presonus, etc  (Read 43559 times)

Gary Fitzpatrick

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Re: Soundcraft Si Expression - Desk to compete with Behringer, Presonus, etc
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2013, 09:01:26 am »

anyone got an idea on the pricing on the UK side of the pond??
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jason misterka

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- Or you are a real pro and you think in terms of return of investment. The contracts you have cover the console price. When you no longer need the desk, you resale it but you do not mind the price because this is just "slighltly more money". You did not build your business profitability based on the resale price of gears.


This is incorrect.

Not every piece of equipment we buy is able to entirely fund itself without accounting for resale value.  Even if you gig four days a week year round, not all of your equipment works every gig.

The only way small and mid-sized regional companies can afford to maintain a competitive upgrade cycle is to buy equipment at the absolute lowest cost possible and then resell it used for, hopefully, 75% of that cost.

Predictability of resale is an important factor in our decision making.  The analog blood-letting was hard on us.  If the future of all equipment purchases, especially consoles, follows suit, I predict a lot less purchasing and a lot more renting to meet riders.  Not always a bad thing itself but may mean the manufactures sell less consoles :) At least to us.

Jason
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This is incorrect.

Not every piece of equipment we buy is able to entirely fund itself without accounting for resale value.  Even if you gig four days a week year round, not all of your equipment works every gig.

The only way small and mid-sized regional companies can afford to maintain a competitive upgrade cycle is to buy equipment at the absolute lowest cost possible and then resell it used for, hopefully, 75% of that cost.

Predictability of resale is an important factor in our decision making.  The analog blood-letting was hard on us.  If the future of all equipment purchases, especially consoles, follows suit, I predict a lot less purchasing and a lot more renting to meet riders.  Not always a bad thing itself but may mean the manufactures sell less consoles :) At least to us.

Jason

If your business equipment isn't paying for itself without resale, you're in the wrong business.
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jason misterka

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If your business equipment isn't paying for itself without resale, you're in the wrong business.

Maybe so. I didn't say all of our equipment doesn't but some if it doesn't.  If we didn't have to meet riders with a new greatest and latest it would be much easier.  You also must be in a different market segment. 

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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Maybe so. I didn't say all of our equipment doesn't but some if it doesn't.  If we didn't have to meet riders with a new greatest and latest it would be much easier.  You also must be in a different market segment.

Are you not counting the depreciation on your taxes?  I know it's not income, but being able to amortize the cost of the gear over time should be factored into the equation.
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Grant Conklin

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Re: Soundcraft Si Expression - Desk to compete with Behringer, Presonus, etc
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2013, 10:44:09 am »

16x8 MAP$899
32x16 MAP $1299
+the MADI card for your desk

Ryan - where did these #'s come from?  My rep told me $999 and $1999.  The MADI card is $990 MAP.  I really wish the snakes were Blu-Link, not MADI.  With only one expansion port, blu-link would give you a snake, DBX personal monitor mixing, and connectivity to BSS London all in one. 

Grant

Samuel Rees

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Soundcraft Si Expression - Desk to compete with Behringer, Presonus, etc
« Reply #26 on: January 25, 2013, 11:14:24 am »

In regards to resale price, I think to some extent that you are right I shouldn't be depending on resale price. I've learned lesson here, I'm young at this and I've got a lot to learn.

That said - I'm not happy with Soundcraft. Tech is tech - I get it. I don't get upset when my iPhone and my MacBook Pro go down in value the next year when the new stuff is released, I understand what kind of business that is. I was not mad when they dropped the price of the SiC the first time either, it was reasonable and I understood why.

But what has happened here is quite unique. To release a console that is essentially the same except better, at 50% of the price, is something not even Apple does. Imagine if they upgraded the GLD and put it on sale for $4,250 including stagebox? That's more than a market adjustment it's downright manipulative. To allow your customers to invest in a product you know you will immediately undercut? Fair or not, Yamaha isn't doing it, Allen Heath isn't doing it, not even Presonus is doing it.
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Samuel Rees

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Soundcraft Si Expression - Desk to compete with Behringer, Presonus, etc
« Reply #27 on: January 25, 2013, 11:21:56 am »

Ryan - where did these #'s come from?  My rep told me $999 and $1999.  The MADI card is $990 MAP.  I really wish the snakes were Blu-Link, not MADI.  With only one expansion port, blu-link would give you a snake, DBX personal monitor mixing, and connectivity to BSS London all in one. 

Grant

I can see how Blu-link would be good, but I think the MADI is to remain consistent with their other stage boxes and I imagine that quite important to them.   
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Nicolas Poisson

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Mmmm... What used gear can be hopefuly sold 75% of its price new ? As soon as you open the box, the gear loses 50% of its price. I bought many things second hand, including L'acoustics MTD115 speakers, Chevin and Camco amps, etc. This is pro and renowned gear. I paid 25-50% of the initial street price (typically 1/3rd). And this is not a question of gear being outdated: MTD115 are still very common where I live.

In case the product is "as new" and only 2 years old you might expect 2/3rd of the price. But "as new" means you almost did not use it, and you resale it for that reason. Basically, you mistook at buying the gear (it happens).

Pro people I know apply a depreciation of 20% per year to gears in their accounts. If they sell gears older than 5 years, they get money for gears which value is considered zero. They can put a positive number in the "profit and loss" line. A good opportunity to bring the whole familly to the restaurant. I talk about small contractors, one or two people, not big rental companies.

I understand the frustration of seeing price droping: you tell yourself "if I had waited for one year, I would have paid half the price". Or "I could buy a better device for the same price". But following these arguments you should postpone any purchase to next year. You will eventually never buy anything.

I mean: I understand price drop is not pleasant at first glance. But thinkning rationaly, there is no reason to be disapointed indeed. Enjoy the fact that the next gear you'll buy is half its release price last year.
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Samuel Rees

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Soundcraft Si Expression - Desk to compete with Behringer, Presonus, etc
« Reply #29 on: January 25, 2013, 11:41:51 am »

I mean: I understand price drop is not pleasant at first glance. But thinking rationaly, there is no reason to be disapointed indeed. Enjoy the fact that the next gear you'll buy is half its release price last year.

I really think that this is greater than your average product turn over. What mixing product has had this kind of undercut? Just Soundcraft. It's normal when a product as an average depreciation (even if thats a lot) but when its above average I think it's fair to be mad.
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Soundcraft Si Expression - Desk to compete with Behringer, Presonus, etc
« Reply #29 on: January 25, 2013, 11:41:51 am »


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