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Author Topic: Waves Live MultiRack Native...  (Read 34584 times)

Fausto Prochet

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Re: Waves Live MultiRack Native...
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2013, 02:08:26 pm »

For aprox. US$ 1.5k more you can get a X32. It costs twice the ammount of money (aprox.) your setup will cost you but you gain a 40 channel mixer, total recall capability - including preamps, virtual sound check (32 ch. multi-track recording) capability, twice the ammount of preamps, good onboard FX and lots of I/O possibilities on top of the plug-in interaction you are looking for (wich would then happen through a single USB or firewire cable).

Sounded like a good deal to me...  ;D
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Jordan Wolf

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Re: Waves Live MultiRack Native...
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2013, 07:47:13 am »

For aprox. US$ 1.5k more you can get a X32.
Fausto,

It seems to me like Jeff is beyond the realm of the X32 in usage/rider requirement, so I don't think that's a viable solution.
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Jordan Wolf
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"We want our sound to go into the soul of the audience, and see if it can awaken some little thing in their minds... Cause there are so many sleeping people." - Jimi Hendrix

Jeff D Johnson

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Re: Waves Live MultiRack Native...
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2013, 09:38:01 am »

Fausto,

It seems to me like Jeff is beyond the realm of the X32 in usage/rider requirement, so I don't think that's a viable solution.

True Jordan - and while I'm sure the X32 has some promise for some settings, I'm not going to go into live rooms that have a heritage 3k and plop down a X32.  Behringer has a long way to go before they have a viable reputation - regardless of specs.  Plus there's just.... sound quality.  I'd take a LS9-32 over an X32 any day... and boy, I don't want to mix on an LS9. 

Appreciate the input though; I'm in the process of testing this all out right now.  Having some major issues with my focusrite drivers, but if I do resolve them I'll keep posting my experience. 

Side note - I did write a screen display for Touch OSC (midi control software for iPad) for multirack.  I got it to respond and all that, so I could trigger and pull-up certain things on my comp remotely.  Not sure if I'll use it; depends on reliability - but cool concept! 
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Chris Johnson [UK]

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Re: Waves Live MultiRack Native...
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2014, 10:16:22 am »

Sorry to resurrect this thread, but I'm curious to see how Jeff went, and whether you are still using your Touch OSC setup.

Any insights would be appreciated!

Chris
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Jeff D Johnson

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Re: Waves Live MultiRack Native...
« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2014, 12:27:33 am »

Sorry to resurrect this thread, but I'm curious to see how Jeff went, and whether you are still using your Touch OSC setup.

Any insights would be appreciated!

Chris

Chris - I actually didn't implement it.  I have the waves diamond package plus the studio classics, and  I would love to bring them in to the live situation in a non-console carrying way.  That said - I really tried to use my focusrite saffire pro 40 for my I/O, but  I hit a few snags; I'm not sure if it was the saffire mixcontrol software or what, but I hit a few times where it seemed to cut out.  After that, I tested the Touch OSC with midi over wifi via an adhoc network - the delay and jerky response wouldn't do, so the only way to rectify that is to get a midi interface for iOS device; which made me hit that crucial threshold of lack of interest. That, plus I only did the trial of the multirack software for a test, so I'd have to invest the $500 into a product I was unsure of. 

I would love see this work, and love to have the cabiling, interface costs, racking, and necessary software expenses justify the end product.  So far, I haven't hit that point vs. just renting an SC48, SD9, etc (or other medium format desk).  I do occasionally work for a few smaller acts around town, and I've revisited this topic recently.  Maybe my initial aspirations were a bit big (8 - 16 channels of IO). Maybe this is more prone to 1 or two channels?

I think this world is worth looking into more, but honestly, the hard part for me is - who is the target market for this?  Who is using it?  With what desks?  What are they carrying on a 2-4 week tour to make this work?  It is those kind of real-world questions that I have a hard time answering in this arena.  This has to be for smaller (500 or so) person clubs.  Anyone else (and many of these size clubs!) has good digital or better-than-good analog setups.  Anyone smaller may indeed have fair digital that is a pain in the arse to interface with or TRS insert analog.  SO - how often would I use this after spending all this dough on stuff?  Do I need to carry a 4U rack, tons of adapters and insert cables for all situations, a good computer, etc into a club?  It is hard to say that this is worth it over the analog counterpart. 

We're all in a business, and the business end of the NATIVE multirack world is where the equation becomes hard.  I've re-approched it as I now own TDM / "Soundgrid" versions of many of the plugins, but without already owning the plugins, the amount of money to spend on still lugging expensive gear into a club... I'd advise buying good analog strips if I didn't have any plugins and calling it a day.  Since I already own the plugins, I'm looking into it, but making no moves soon. 

I'd love for people to continue to chime in though - I'd love for this to work!  I am just barely old enough to know the difference between having a 120lb rack in the back of a trailer that I'd lug upstairs to the sound booth vs. the weight of a jump drive.  It is just awesome. 

Just thinking aloud here.  If I find my touch OSC file (buried somewhere on my hard drive) I'll try and post it for you all to have.  I did spend a bit of time on it. 

-Jeff

« Last Edit: March 25, 2014, 12:37:42 am by Jeff D Johnson »
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George Dougherty

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Re: Waves Live MultiRack Native...
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2014, 10:54:45 am »

Jeff,
You'd be surprised, I think, at just how good the X32 you dismissed actually is. The general consensus seems to be that the sound quality is the opposite of your bias and it will hang with many of the better boards out there.
That said, the M32 due out shortly will be a pretty compelling option as well if you really can't stand showing up with an X32.

My experience on the road with the X32 on small to large stages is that while many are still reserving judgement on long term reliability, everyone gives it props for sound quality and feature set. I've even worked with an engineer willing to sell off his Pro1 for a pair of x32 to gain a FOH/Monitor split rig and keep roughly the same audio quality.

My only gripe in your situation would be the loss of recording ability unless multitrack had some sort of multitrack recording ability. The inputs are only assignable to one piece of hardware at a time.  You could work around that though by linking in an x32 Core over AES50 and splitting the inputs to that for recording while using the XuSB card in the desk for Waves.  If you went with a sound grid server and the MADI interface option, you can now get a 32x32 MADI card for the x32/m32 as well.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2014, 11:00:42 am by George Dougherty »
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Samuel Rees

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Re: Waves Live MultiRack Native...
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2014, 11:24:57 am »

A guy from Waves told me via phone he uses this program called Jack to split the audio one one computer coming from the SG network to a DAW and Multirack for his waves product demos.
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John Penkala

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Re: Waves Live MultiRack Native...
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2014, 12:28:01 pm »

Jeff,
You'd be surprised, I think, at just how good the X32 you dismissed actually is. The general consensus seems to be that the sound quality is the opposite of your bias and it will hang with many of the better boards out there.
That said, the M32 due out shortly will be a pretty compelling option as well if you really can't stand showing up with an X32.

My experience on the road with the X32 on small to large stages is that while many are still reserving judgement on long term reliability, everyone gives it props for sound quality and feature set. I've even worked with an engineer willing to sell off his Pro1 for a pair of x32 to gain a FOH/Monitor split rig and keep roughly the same audio quality.


+1

 If you told me two years ago that I would own a Behringer console, I would have laughed at you. The turning point for me was when I was visiting a friend at his house gig. We watched the headliner do his check with a Profile. The opener had an X32 with Multirack running. As the opening bands engineer did soundcheck, the house engineer, the headliner's engineer and myself were all very impressed about the quality of the mix.  After that experience,  I sold off a bunch of nice analog gear, bought a pair of X32's, and a Wave's Multirack setup and haven't looked back. I've recently added a Midas DL251 stage box to the system and have been very happy with the quality and flexibility. I couldn't ask for more.
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Samuel Rees

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Waves Live MultiRack Native...
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2014, 02:59:17 pm »

How's the latency with FireWire? I would expect it to be around 7-10 ms not including plug delay, which is pretty high. No issues there? It'd have to be too high for in ears I imagine.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2014, 03:04:42 pm by Samuel Rees »
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John Penkala

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Re: Waves Live MultiRack Native...
« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2014, 04:01:11 pm »

How's the latency with FireWire? I would expect it to be around 7-10 ms not including plug delay, which is pretty high. No issues there? It'd have to be too high for in ears I imagine.

I'm getting 8.54ms with a MBPro via FireWire with "0" latency plugins. Plugins that run 96 samples adds 2ms and 192 samples adds 4ms, all at 48Khz. I have had no issues at FOH, but the latency is too high to be useable with IEM's.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2014, 12:22:22 am by John Penkala »
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