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Author Topic: Waves Live MultiRack Native...  (Read 34587 times)

Jeff Babcock

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Re: Waves Live MultiRack Native...
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2013, 05:42:37 pm »

I have tried to get Multirack working with a firewire based computer setup for I/O with a few different interfaces, and found that even with a very fast computer and tweaking buffer settings as low as possible without clicks/dropouts, that I could not get a latency that I would consider usable, particularly for things like compressors.  It also created a headache trying to manage the latencies of things which were not routed to the Multirack and keeping them synced with the channels which were returning with latency.

No problem if you want to do verbs/delays, but the more real-time plugins (gates, comps, etc) were a problem for me.  YMMV, but I would suggest that you carry your own console with a waves card or soundgrid setup.  The headaches of a Multirack native setup IMHO is not worth the hassle.
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Denny Jagard

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Re: Waves Live MultiRack Native...
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2013, 05:57:07 pm »


Unless anyone else has an idea besides buying an Avid desk?

Before limiting the live plugin hardware options, it should be mentioned that there are several new hardware and software Waves/Digico products designed to help with the live interface and processing of the MultiRack, called Digigrid.  I haven't wrapped my head around all of the options, details, workflow, etc., but suffice it to say that you should check it out before choosing your strategy.  My understanding is there are: different devices to handle connections for madi, pro-tools and analog inserts; some boxes include DSP processing and networking to be more reliable and have less latency than just a laptop; and mixing software that could enable more scene functionality/automation than just the simple Multirack.   

So far, I have been lucky enough to get a Profile or a Digico with my customers the last few years, but I have been using a Madi based recording rig using a Macbook Pro with an RME Madiface (plus I bought the Avid card which is not super quick to install if you drop the inner screw), and it seems that Madi is very stable/reliable, but sometimes the recording fails if I don't run big buffers.  I don't know if my laptop could be reliable enough for low latency live plugin processing.  I think the new hardware makes using the Multirack a pro option if you love a console like the Vi6, the Midas, or anything with a Madi in/out or analog inserts.  I don't know if the prices have been released, to determine if it's economical to be prepared for various situations.  And you still might get consoles that have neither Madi, pro-tools digi-links or analog inserts (like a Yamaha M7 with no cards installed).  So it might be more reliable, cost effective, and relaxing to carry a small, inexpensive console with your own Multirack  Digigrid system (especially if you do manual delay offsets, like you might with parallel compression between groups).  This link should be the recent announcement on Prosoundweb about the release:
http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/waves_audio_and_digico_announce_new_partnership_digigrid/

Full disclosure, I am on the Waves "Street Team," which means I am an independent live engineer who loved their products and volunteered to help for some benefits, such as access to their gurus. 

Please update this thread, as I'd love to hear about your quest to be able to use plugins on house consoles.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 04:30:09 pm by Denny Jagard »
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Arthur Skudra

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Re: Waves Live MultiRack Native...
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2013, 04:57:30 pm »

Just wondering if it's possible to build your own Soundgrid server using existing computer equipment?  Or am I better off buying their off-the-shelf solution?
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Samuel Rees

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Waves Live MultiRack Native...
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2013, 07:48:46 pm »

Just wondering if it's possible to build your own Soundgrid server using existing computer equipment?  Or am I better off buying their off-the-shelf solution?

Did you read this thread at all? I think that was answered in serious detail.
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Arthur Skudra

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Re: Waves Live MultiRack Native...
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2013, 08:02:59 pm »

Did you read this thread at all? I think that was answered in serious detail.
Indeed I did Samuel, MultiRack was covered in excellent detail, thanks.  Read my question carefully, my inquiry is specific to the Soundgrid Server itself, essentially an optimized linux server, assembled and sold under the Waves brand.  Based on the research I've done so far, the answer seems to be no from a practical point of view.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2013, 08:09:14 pm by Arthur Skudra »
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Randall Hyde

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Re: Waves Live MultiRack Native...
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2013, 08:22:16 pm »

Hey Everyone,
I've been doing some brain cell crunching and I just can't figure out a real solution on this:

I work for a touring band that does primarily 500 - 2500 person venues.  24 inputs, 8 people on stage and an LS9 stereo stage IEM rig that they control (with a passive split out to the House and my mics). 

Now, I would LOVE to integrate Waves plugins into our setup; we used a ton in studio, and because of the fact that most people in this band switch instruments and so, in effort to reign in the channel count, multiple mics are doing double or triple duty.  The snap-shots would be SO helpful!  But we can't really afford the time or the cost of taking an SC48 out on the road - or something similar.  I own Waves Diamond Native and would love to use that for my outboard.  Waves has their Multirack Native product which would seemingly make life easy...

But, here's my question how in the heck do people ACTUALLY do this?  How do you integrate your outboard Waves Multirack "gear" (audio interface) with all these different formats now?  Analog is one thing, but we get a few M7s, Avid/Digi consoles all the time, Digico stuff.... and I have files for all of those, but how could a person have a consistent experience without buying cards for each desk or something? 

I would love some insight / pictures / critiques / good jokes, but mostly just some understanding of how this Multirack Native product is actually used in the field.

Thanks for your help,
-Jeff

This is not an overt recommendation for the product, but have you looked at SAC (Software Audio Console)? I'm running two SAC rigs and the ability to use VST plugins (not just Waves) was a real big selling point to me. SAC isn't a perfect solution, but in your instance it might actually work well if you're willing to put in the time to learn it.

www.softwareaudioconsole.com
Cheers,
Randy Hyde
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Samuel Rees

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Re: Waves Live MultiRack Native...
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2013, 02:51:47 am »

Indeed I did Samuel, MultiRack was covered in excellent detail, thanks.  Read my question carefully, my inquiry is specific to the Soundgrid Server itself, essentially an optimized linux server, assembled and sold under the Waves brand.  Based on the research I've done so far, the answer seems to be no from a practical point of view.

Hmm, I think it could work fine. Its building your own soundgrid with its own I/O that is the trouble. However, if you have a console with the WAVES card that connects to your homemade soundgrid server via ethernet it should work fine.
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Chris Johnson [UK]

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Re: Waves Live MultiRack Native...
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2013, 06:43:49 am »

Now with DigiGrid (Waves Soundgrid with Digico Soundtracs IO) this should get a lot simpler, as you'll be able to have a standalone soundgrid system, without console cards, but with specifically designed low latency IO
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Arthur Skudra

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Re: Waves Live MultiRack Native...
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2013, 03:52:13 pm »

Hmm, I think it could work fine. Its building your own soundgrid with its own I/O that is the trouble. However, if you have a console with the WAVES card that connects to your homemade soundgrid server via ethernet it should work fine.
Yeah, that's what I was hoping to do, use a waves card in the Yamaha console, and create my own Waves server using a spare Mac Mini I have kicking around.  However all my google searches have been in vain on finding any directions/software to create my own "Soundgrid server."  Just buy their off the shelf solution, and consider it done!  There's plenty of info out there for setting up a MultiRack server, but as others here stated, you pay a price with latency!  Or does the MultiRack software have Waves Soundgrid I/O capability via the computer's EtherNet port so I don't take a hit with increased latency?  So many questions!!  It certainly has been educational!

The Digigrid stuff looks really nice, I wonder what their prices will be like?
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Jeff D Johnson

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Re: Waves Live MultiRack Native...
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2013, 10:49:07 am »

Well, as an update (and to get more back on topic :-) I'm going to go for this option, which will cover 85% of my needs.  The step after this is probably an SC48 or another console + soundgrid.  Love the digigrid stuff, but most consoles that I'm using don't have MADI standard or don't support it at all. 

 - Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 + Octopre Dynamic MKii (connected via Toslink) for 16 channels of inserts
 - My existing Waves Diamond native bundle
 - A small midi trigger setup (for snapshots and quick grabs like threshold and whatnot)
 - 16 channel balanced insert snake with 16 adapters for analog desks with unbalanced inserts
 - A sexy case - cause everything is better in a sweet case. 

This will be running on my retina MPB, which specs out at 2.7GHZ i7, 16GB Ram, 512 SSD.  I'll try and report back after some tests. 

As a secondary note, with the setup I have I'm going to probably try and grab at MY16AT for the yamaha boards; I can then use the ADAT for my inserts.  That takes care of yamaha desks, analog and then I can bring my presets into the Avids. 

Here's hoping! 
-Jeff
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