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[Dennis Goh]

Hi all,

*Previously, used 4 piece wharfedale exp-x18pb in my small pub, arranged them side by side. Ample bass (40Hz & up for playback).
http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,138311.0.html
However...the more i listen, the sadder i became, the lows just dun cut it, maybe there are some high 30s but not enough spl.

Example: Some song with bass sweep will "Disappear" halfway. It will appear if used on other subs (home theater sub).
My budget wharfedale just kind of cmi. I also can't possibly buy home theater subs like SVS to put at pub.

I went round vendors searching for sub again. OutLine's subs did impress me but the price seems on the high side, L"Accoustics are awesome but the price is a killer. SRX 728 sound low enough but the size is too big for me.

Guess i'll bite the bullet & get dual 18"s. buy once & forget bout it
*I do some dj rental at times, thinking to use dual 18 so size is a concern. (Veh is small, thus transport's an issue at times)

As such, once again need some pointers for below qus.

1) Is there any dual 18" subs that are small in size, budget to reasonable price yet will dig low in real world use? (Getting XTI or inuke to power them)

2) If i am persistent to get powered subs, taking two (2) piece of single 18" (jbl prx 618s xlf) in account, place them "side by side" > how does they   
   compare to a single piece of srx 728s"? (never heard 618s-xlf in real life b4, feq respond seems just a bit different on paper -10db @ 30Hz & 27Hz)

3) The point of single 18" is just potability/space constrain? Cos Single 18 dun go low enough? Any powered/non-powered that can go low?

Thanks In Advance.

EDITED: If i get people to build me LAB sub, much lower over jbl 728?

[Scott Wagner]

Hi all,

*Previously, used 4 piece wharfedale exp-x18pb in my small pub, arranged them side by side. Ample bass (40Hz & up for playback).
http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,138311.0.html
However...the more i listen, the sadder i became, the lows just dun cut it, maybe there are some high 30s but not enough spl.

Example: Some song with bass sweep will "Disappear" halfway. It will appear if used on other subs (home theater sub).
My budget wharfedale just kind of cmi. I also can't possibly buy home theater subs like SVS to put at pub.

I went round vendors searching for sub again. OutLine's subs did impress me but the price seems on the high side, L"Accoustics are awesome but the price is a killer. SRX 728 sound low enough but the size is too big for me.

Guess i'll bite the bullet & get dual 18"s. buy once & forget bout it
*I do some dj rental at times, thinking to use dual 18 so size is a concern. (Veh is small, thus transport's an issue at times)

As such, once again need some pointers for below qus.

1) Is there any dual 18" subs that are small in size, budget to reasonable price yet will dig low in real world use? (Getting XTI or inuke to power them)

2) If i am persistent to get powered subs, taking two (2) piece of single 18" (jbl prx 618s xlf) in account, place them "side by side" > how does they   
   compare to a single piece of srx 728s"? (never heard 618s-xlf in real life b4, feq respond seems just a bit different on paper -10db @ 30Hz & 27Hz)

3) The point of single 18" is just potability/space constrain? Cos Single 18 dun go low enough? Any powered/non-powered that can go low?

Thanks In Advance.

EDITED: If i get people to build me LAB sub, much lower over jbl 728?

First off, if you're looking for the smallest sub, the Labsub isn't it (by a long shot).  Currently, the smallest dual 18" sub that's worth owning is the EV QRX 218.  The go low, and sound good doing it.  If you're looking for something powered, the JBL PRX618S-XLF would be my choice.  Of course, if you can get past the 18" requirement, there are good options from JTR (Growler) and Danley (TH-Mini) that are smaller.  It all depends on what is most important to you.

[Bob Leonard]

18" subs and small size aren't something that go together. A dual 18 will usually be at least 40" across the front and the cabinet size has to be a size that works with the driver. Many of us use single 18" cabinets. You can size the rig to the gig and they are much easier to handle.

[Ivan Beaver]

First you need to qualify your needs more.

you said go lower-but what about total loudness (ACTUAL SPL).  How important is that-yeah yeah-everybody says they need to be loud-but HOW LOUD DO YOU need them to go?

Why dual 18" drivers?  Is there something magical about that configuration that you need?

What if a different driver configuration gave you a lower response and got loud enough (however either of those numbers REALLY is)?  Would you be open to that?

And of course the real question-what IS your budget?  What is cheap to some people is very affordable to others.

As with anything-until YOU tell us some useful numbers (budget-SPL-response etc) then it is pure speculation and different people will give you different answers.

[Dennis Goh]

Thx Scott Wagner,
Any idea will ev qrx 218 dig as low as srx 728 in real world? The size is ok to me.
If i get a pair of prx 618s-xlf, put side by side, is it as good as saying a dual 18"? Does the box have anything to do with it?

18" subs and small size aren't something that go together. A dual 18 will usually be at least 40" across the front and the cabinet size has to be a size that works with the driver. Many of us use single 18" cabinets. You can size the rig to the gig and they are much easier to handle.

Yup, i understand the size issue, transport will be a headache if ppl want rent them.
At times when rent out a pair of single 18" cab + pair of 15" mains to some returning customer, space is bout L @ 25 ft, W @ 15 ft, H @12 ft. Place side by side is almost about the length of a dual 18" cab. 
Customer's feedback is not enough bass when i collect them back. I was like .Hmmmm
Chat with them, then understood they meant not enough lows. I guess they wanted the mid to low 30s Hz to be louder like real club.
This is also an factor to make me upgrade subs for pub but not for rental.

Erm, as many used single 18" cabs, which single 18" can produce the lows feq like srx 728? i can get a pair or two of them.
Thanks.

[Greg_Cameron]

Erm, as many used single 18" cabs, which single 18" can produce the lows feq like srx 728? i can get a pair or two of them.

SRX718, if you can find them. That line is now discontinued.

[Dennis Goh]

First you need to qualify your needs more.
you said go lower-but what about total loudness (ACTUAL SPL).  How important is that-yeah yeah-everybody says they need to be loud-but HOW LOUD DO YOU need them to go?
Why dual 18" drivers?  Is there something magical about that configuration that you need?
What if a different driver configuration gave you a lower response and got loud enough (however either of those numbers REALLY is)?  Would you be open to that?
And of course the real question-what IS your budget?  What is cheap to some people is very affordable to others.
As with anything-until YOU tell us some useful numbers (budget-SPL-response etc) then it is pure speculation and different people will give you different answers.

Thanks for making me brain-storm more.
Well, i guess is a mixture of my wants too, put at home, can party too. (i guess is a particular low feq below 40Hz, bout 35Hz?).
Loudness i guess bout 80-90db? i am not sure.

The reason with dual 18" is because i only hear that particular low feq or feeling of music (with main) on dual 18" sub. From sho, jbl, l"accoustic,turbosound.
Seriously, i have never hear that in single 18" cabs.
**Originally, i thought was dual 18" is only the +3db as place together...so i get more single 18" cab place them together.. in fact four of them.. still do not have that sound. I guess is the sub box? driver itself? or i am missing out on decent single 18" cabs.
**Saw EV's elx 118p spec sheet, lowest they go bout (-3db)@ 42Hz, (-10db)@ 32Hz ....Almost the same as srx 728, faster booked an appointment with vendor, when they tested it, single / pair (side by side)...quite loud but still not go for me.

I am open to diff driver configurations, as long its goes low enough (maybe bout 30Hz) yet can produce reasonable spl. (I do not do live band/shows, only play recorded music).
Or even Lab sub, i guess maximum size i can accept is about the size of qrx 218s. [HxWxD > 40"x22"24"] too big will be headache for me.


Budget is very hard for me. Amp i can only get INuke 6000 dsp or 3000 dsp.
i believe if powered single 18", i am ok to spent bout $1000/- per piece.
Dual 18" i got no idea.
Maybe max total>> $2500-$3000?


Edited: remembered only once i heard a single 18" that was nice was a RCF 18". cannot recall which model it was.
Edited again: In disco/clubs during playback of music from tiesto, armin van buuren etc, there will be hard hitting higher feq bass.(This i can get it).
THEN, there is also that pants/jeans rumbling effect to the music / sound, like the air around you is shaking, stand in front of the sub, one will hard breathing.
Is that the low feq?

* Some place i go that utilize only one Dual 18" on each side also hv the air pressure. I believe that is why i think to get dual 18" cabs. As i said: i am really green, got not much knowledge so please bear with me.

[David Morison]

Or even Lab sub, i guess maximum size i can accept is about the size of qrx 218s. [HxWxD > 40"x22"24"] too big will be headache for me.

You might as well forget the LABSub then - it's at least twice the size of the QRx218.
Cheers,
David.

[Greg_Cameron]

Ultimately if you want low & loud, your cabinet is going to need some volume and hence be larger. It's just the way it is.

[Dennis Wiggins]

Here's what I did.  What prompted this was that I just could no longer easily load and unload QRx 218S subs by by myself.  The Elim KWs are much taller and thereby simpler for a 64-year-old to "tip and slide" in and out of van

These are hard to find, but can be found relatively cheap and in good working condition.  You will ultimately replace the original drivers with EVX-180B or equivalent. 

The good:
Cheap.
Solidy built with good frontal protection.
Easy to load and unload.
Large volume with a single large port yields a full bottom that you can really feel.
They can take helluva a beating, and do not rattle or fall apart

The bad:
Hmmm...
They are covered in carpet.  This may or may not be an issue.  I like 'em this way.  They don't get "scratch marks".  Carpet tears can easily be repaired with Gorilla Glue.

The Ugly:
The Wheels are ONLY useful indoors, on a smooth floor.  The wheels will  break very easily if used on a sidewalk, or pavement. 

BTW, I am looking to purchase 1 or 2 more.

ps:  The current Tour-X series (TX2181)  is essentially the same cabinet.  I don't recommend the ELX sub as it isn't as "robust", although very "Wedding Friendly" too look at.

-Dennis

[Spenser Hamilton]

The 728 is imo one of the easiest double 18 subs to transport and deploy, if that is too much to handle then you probably need to scale back to a good compact cab and accept the trade-offs

[Greg_Cameron]

The 728 is imo one of the easiest double 18 subs to transport and deploy, if that is too much to handle then you probably need to scale back to a good compact cab and accept the trade-offs

Two 718s = one 728. But it's actually harder to move the singles than it is the doubles I understand.

[Art Welter]

Two 718s = one 728. But it's actually harder to move the singles than it is the doubles I understand.

The 718 is tuned a bit higher than the 728, it rolls off below 50Hz, the 728 rolls off below 40 Hz.

If low, loud and small is the goal, something like my 2x12":

http://soundforums.net/diy-audio/134-free-sub-plan-dual-lab12-front-loaded-welter-systems.html

or DSL's CS-30 is the way to go, a pair of Lab 12" simply have more excursion and cone area and work in a smaller box than a JBL 2268H, the driver in the 718 and 728.

That said, there are even better drivers available now than the Lab 12".

Art

[Scott Wagner]

You might as well forget the LABSub then - it's at least twice the size of the QRx218.
Cheers,
David.

And loaded with 12" speakers...  Of course, it'll kick the crap out of even the venerable 728.  Which leads me to this advice for the OP: don't get stuck worrying about speaker size.

As this seems to be a dry rental-type situation, I'd advise the OP to get the JBL PRX618S-XLF (or some other powered box).  They are much harder to destroy by "Those who don't knows" - thanks to lots of hard DSP work by the engineers.  Of course, nothing is idiot proof since idiots get more creative every day.

[Spenser Hamilton]

Two 718s = one 728. But it's actually harder to move the singles than it is the doubles I understand.

If your tailgate is low enough you can move the 728 without ever having to lift it. Although 718 are so light it's not a hassle when you do lift them. Both sound good and will go fairly low relative to their size.

[John Chiara]

For $3k you could find a pair of used Th115's

[john dunne]

Pm me if you might consider 2 Yorkville LS801Ps. Powered single 18" and in your price range.  They are certainly loud.

[Greg_Cameron]

The 718 is tuned a bit higher than the 728, it rolls off below 50Hz, the 728 rolls off below 40 Hz.

Hmm, that's not good. I was lead down the garden path then concerning those two models - that the 718 was simply half of a 728. Thanks for the info

[Jack keaton]

Used market is magical right now, I got my versarray 218's for 700 a piece.

[Dennis Goh]

Thanks all for the reply.

The 728 is imo one of the easiest double 18 subs to transport and deploy, if that is too much to handle then you probably need to scale back to a good compact cab and accept the trade-offs

Yeah.. i also think that might be one of the way out.

Ok, i will try to see if i can get 718. Maybe i'll try to see what can be done to put 728 into the smallish pub.

I'd advise the OP to get the JBL PRX618S-XLF (or some other powered box).  They are much harder to destroy by "Those who don't knows" - thanks to lots of hard DSP work by the engineers.  Of course, nothing is idiot proof since idiots get more creative every day.

Hahahaa, true, 1 box to plug & go. No need to worry people that will adjust the settings.

For $3k you could find a pair of used Th115's

Pm me if you might consider 2 Yorkville LS801Ps. Powered single 18" and in your price range.  They are certainly loud.

Shipping to me will be quite high due to weight..but both are well accepted stuff...Hmmmm..

Guess i just might hv to stay with single 18" cab, powered or not..
Once again, Thanks alot.

[Mike Pyle]

Best bang for buck is probably Yorkville LS1208.

[Dennis Goh]

Too bad my country do not have iYorkville LS1208, if not i will go to have a listen. If i import them in, due to size & possibly weight. DHL or ups price is not low..

Most prob have to go by sea freight? Reach port, there are company there that will start "pressing their calculator" to see how to earn money from end user just to take that out & some taxes. All these do add up quite a bit.

Too bad LAB sub is huge, if not i will definitely get plan & have someone to build it. Heard too much good stuff about it.
(Even "OutLine" have a sub name Lab15.) Vendor told me is like a labyrinth, many folds inside.

i am thinking to get jbl prx-xlf, should be getting a pair. But partner kept on saying get behringer b1800d-pro....because the money for a pair of xlf = 2 pairs of beh's sub...Which lead back to a question that i don't seems to know.

Putting a pair of same make & model 18"cabs (any brand) side by side.[all settings same & look like a dual 18" cab)
> other then the +3db, does it have any other effect?

Going from the "wharfedale evp-x18pb active sub" to  "jbl prx618-xlf" is an upgrade.....but if going to "behringer B1800D-pro active sub"?
As partner have bigger share in pub, his words are final.

Both of us have diff mentality to keep the crowd, some comes for the ladies, some come for drunk.
His thinking > sub can use then its good enough.  Ladies to lure customers to come back to pub> earn ladies drink.
My thinking > better sound for the party people that loves chivas/martell.

[Spenser Hamilton]

Too bad my country do not have iYorkville LS1208, if not i will go to have a listen. If i import them in, due to size & possibly weight. DHL or ups price is not low..

Most prob have to go by sea freight? Reach port, there are company there that will start "pressing their calculator" to see how to earn money from end user just to take that out & some taxes. All these do add up quite a bit.

Too bad LAB sub is huge, if not i will definitely get plan & have someone to build it. Heard too much good stuff about it.
(Even "OutLine" have a sub name Lab15.) Vendor told me is like a labyrinth, many folds inside.

i am thinking to get jbl prx-xlf, should be getting a pair. But partner kept on saying get behringer b1800d-pro....because the money for a pair of xlf = 2 pairs of beh's sub...Which lead back to a question that i don't seems to know.

Putting a pair of same make & model 18"cabs (any brand) side by side.[all settings same & look like a dual 18" cab)
> other then the +3db, does it have any other effect?

Going from the "wharfedale evp-x18pb active sub" to  "jbl prx618-xlf" is an upgrade.....but if going to "behringer B1800D-pro active sub"?
As partner have bigger share in pub, his words are final.

Both of us have diff mentality to keep the crowd, some comes for the ladies, some come for drunk.
His thinking > sub can use then its good enough.  Ladies to lure customers to come back to pub> earn ladies drink.
My thinking > better sound for the party people that loves chivas/martell.

Our retail section sells both the JBL and Behringer powered subs, if you can afford the JBL, get the JBL.

[Bill Hornibrook]

If you're doing more EDM/contemporary hip-hop than live sound, you might want to consider building 21s instead of buying dual 18s. You mentioned building as a possibility. With these guys, I basically "built the box" off the B&C website and have been very happy with them as a club DJ.


Individually, these boxes are not much larger than a compact 18. They pack well and I can move them around all by myself without too much difficulty.

They break the 40hz barrier with aplomb. When I play a track like "The Motto" (Drake) with those sinusoidal low "B's" (31hz) the whole club shakes like it's going to come apart.

Both B&C and Eighteen Sound have design suggestions for their 21s on their websites. I encourage you to check them out

[ProSoundWeb Community]