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Author Topic: Why no love for the 'sound' of Yamaha digital consoles?  (Read 77683 times)

kristianjohnsen

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Re: Why no love for the 'sound' of Yamaha digital consoles?
« Reply #160 on: January 07, 2013, 07:32:47 pm »


 Yamaha .....
Nowhere in their own literature are their digital boards described as music or pro audio products.

http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/global/en/news_events/newsrelease/2013/50_20130107_ri8_ro8.jsp

"Natural, musical sound that brings out the best in any console.
 The “natural, musical sound” that was a key element of the CL Series design policy is carried on without compromise in the Ri8-D and Ro8-D. Mechanical construction, circuit board layout, power supply, grounding, and parts selection have all been executed with meticulous attention to detail and quality, combined with exhaustive performance and listening tests at each stage of development. The result is eminently natural, musical sound."
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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: Why no love for the 'sound' of Yamaha digital consoles?
« Reply #161 on: January 07, 2013, 07:43:23 pm »

http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/global/en/news_events/newsrelease/2013/50_20130107_ri8_ro8.jsp

"Natural, musical sound that brings out the best in any console.
 The “natural, musical sound” that was a key element of the CL Series design policy is carried on without compromise in the Ri8-D and Ro8-D. Mechanical construction, circuit board layout, power supply, grounding, and parts selection have all been executed with meticulous attention to detail and quality, combined with exhaustive performance and listening tests at each stage of development. The result is eminently natural, musical sound."

Bazinga!!!
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Why no love for the 'sound' of Yamaha digital consoles?
« Reply #162 on: January 07, 2013, 10:02:21 pm »

PS: My confederate money isn't gaining value either.

Invest in yeast... so the South can rise again...

Thanks for that stirring round of indifference!  I'll be here all week.
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: Why no love for the 'sound' of Yamaha digital consoles?
« Reply #163 on: January 07, 2013, 10:05:49 pm »

Invest in yeast... so the South can rise again...

Thanks for that stirring round of indifference!  I'll be here all week.

She was bred in the Old South but she's only a crumb up here........
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Jim Baron

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Re: Why no love for the 'sound' of Yamaha digital consoles?
« Reply #164 on: January 07, 2013, 10:57:48 pm »

http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/global/en/news_events/newsrelease/2013/50_20130107_ri8_ro8.jsp

"Natural, musical sound that brings out the best in any console.
 The “natural, musical sound” that was a key element of the CL Series design policy is carried on without compromise in the Ri8-D and Ro8-D. Mechanical construction, circuit board layout, power supply, grounding, and parts selection have all been executed with meticulous attention to detail and quality, combined with exhaustive performance and listening tests at each stage of development. The result is eminently natural, musical sound."
.                    Well, here come those marketing claims again.  Still doesn't describe the board as such, just the sound.  I've seen Behringer and Peavey make similar claims.   But really, I've spent years and years running sound, recording music, selling audio gear, doing installations and some repair work too.  In that time my associates and I have had the chance to A/B A LOT of stuff.  So I'm pretty immune to marketing claims. We always did shake our heads at so many stubborn "pro" guys who didn't get a chance to hear so much different stuff and thought that Yamaha boards were the best and that SM58's are the best and anything that says "JBL" on must be the best. Don't get me wrong; I've had successful nights using all the usual gear, but given the choice between an M7CL and an iLive system, I'm going for the iLive. And I'm not even getting into the number of failures of M7CL-48's that I've seen; I'm trying to stick to the topic of sound quality, which is generally good, but there's always something better than Yamaha boards in every price range. Maybe the CL5's will be better, we'll see.   But Mark started the thread to ask what some of us might think is the shortcoming in their consoles, so I feel really bad for the guys who said you "can't separate the components", 'cause I wouldn't want to be you when you hear a knock in your car engine.
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Doug Fowler

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Re: Why no love for the 'sound' of Yamaha digital consoles?
« Reply #165 on: January 08, 2013, 01:04:42 am »

.                    Well, here come those marketing claims again.  Still doesn't describe the board as such, just the sound.  I've seen Behringer and Peavey make similar claims.   But really, I've spent years and years running sound, recording music, selling audio gear, doing installations and some repair work too.  In that time my associates and I have had the chance to A/B A LOT of stuff.  So I'm pretty immune to marketing claims. We always did shake our heads at so many stubborn "pro" guys who didn't get a chance to hear so much different stuff and thought that Yamaha boards were the best and that SM58's are the best and anything that says "JBL" on must be the best. Don't get me wrong; I've had successful nights using all the usual gear, but given the choice between an M7CL and an iLive system, I'm going for the iLive. And I'm not even getting into the number of failures of M7CL-48's that I've seen; I'm trying to stick to the topic of sound quality, which is generally good, but there's always something better than Yamaha boards in every price range. Maybe the CL5's will be better, we'll see.   But Mark started the thread to ask what some of us might think is the shortcoming in their consoles, so I feel really bad for the guys who said you "can't separate the components", 'cause I wouldn't want to be you when you hear a knock in your car engine.

Immune to marketing claims, yet regurgitating RMD (glued foam) as groundbreaking technology.


Okie dokie....
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kristianjohnsen

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Re: Why no love for the 'sound' of Yamaha digital consoles?
« Reply #166 on: January 08, 2013, 07:32:28 am »

.                    Well, here come those marketing claims again.  Still doesn't describe the board as such, just the sound.  I've seen Behringer and Peavey make similar claims.   But really, I've spent years and years running sound, recording music, selling audio gear, doing installations and some repair work too.  In that time my associates and I have had the chance to A/B A LOT of stuff.  So I'm pretty immune to marketing claims. We always did shake our heads at so many stubborn "pro" guys who didn't get a chance to hear so much different stuff and thought that Yamaha boards were the best and that SM58's are the best and anything that says "JBL" on must be the best. Don't get me wrong; I've had successful nights using all the usual gear, but given the choice between an M7CL and an iLive system, I'm going for the iLive. And I'm not even getting into the number of failures of M7CL-48's that I've seen; I'm trying to stick to the topic of sound quality, which is generally good, but there's always something better than Yamaha boards in every price range. Maybe the CL5's will be better, we'll see.   But Mark started the thread to ask what some of us might think is the shortcoming in their consoles, so I feel really bad for the guys who said you "can't separate the components", 'cause I wouldn't want to be you when you hear a knock in your car engine.

Please just scroll up and look at where you typed that Yamaha doesn't describe their products as musical gear, and then scroll to the link where I showed you that they actually do describe their gear as musical.  Thrice in just one paragraph, even.

And still you are arguing...

There are words to describe people like you, but I won't be using them right now ' cause I'm generally an easy-going and polite guy.

I don't suppose I'll spend time answering questions you might have or dig up links for you in the future.  Peace, and best of luck.  I'm sure you're a joy to discuss with in real life.
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Ivan Feder

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Re: Why no love for the 'sound' of Yamaha digital consoles?
« Reply #167 on: January 08, 2013, 07:38:09 am »

Please just scroll up and look at where you typed that Yamaha doesn't describe their products as musical gear, and then scroll to the link where I showed you that they actually do describe their gear as musical.  Thrice in just one paragraph, even.

And still you are arguing...

There are words to describe people like you, but I won't be using them right now ' cause I'm generally an easy-going and polite guy.

I don't suppose I'll spend time answering questions you might have or dig up links for you in the future.  Peace, and best of luck.  I'm sure you're a joy to discuss with in real life.
#1 , Kristian! ;)
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Danny J. Avila

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Re: Why no love for the 'sound' of Yamaha digital consoles?
« Reply #168 on: January 08, 2013, 07:59:20 am »

I am a 18 years experinced Service Agent for most of the Pro audio, video and lighting gear used in the industry. In my area there are much more M7CL and LS9 than any other brands and comparing the existent quantities, Avid SC48 with its blue screen (HDD failure) and A&H T112 with broken surface Switches or Main CPU flaws are more "common" somehow than the Yamaha's desks failures. Yamaha's primarily failure was 90% related to Fader worn out errors or defective Led diodes on the surface boards. Fader environment proof was corrected in the new generation of desks (2009) and available as drop-in spare/upgrade part for earlier models.

And there's one particular local Sound Co that has 2 M7CL desks since 2006 which have suffered every imaginable accident in the process of use or transporting from 220V ground loops, heavy rain (beer) or sun exposures, transporting truck flipping, riot flying bottles impacts and a lot of misuse. I've replaced it's Touch Panel (AST-104) 3 times for different reasons, one 10.4 Sharp LCD screen, repaired 10 input channels, half dozen of DA1 (OMNI Output) boards, bended or broken Rotary Encoder controls and even an USB Hub connectors and these desks are still running shows.

Now, in terms of overall sound quality and available resources, I like better the T112 V1.90 over the LS9 or M7CL.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 08:02:55 am by dannyavila »
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Jim Baron

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Re: Why no love for the 'sound' of Yamaha digital consoles?
« Reply #169 on: January 08, 2013, 08:22:58 am »

Immune to marketing claims, yet regurgitating RMD (glued foam) as groundbreaking technology.


Okie dokie....

Doug, maybe you're referring to Peavey's Quadratic Throat Design?  RMD didn't come out of nowhere.  All companies have names for their proprietary technology, but the elimination of ring modes in woofers was discussed in the industry long before EV cracked it in '97 with a mechanical solution, as opposed to solely using equalization for correction.  It is an advancement.   But this forum seems to be going nowhere, as sound quality is so subjective.  The original question was addressed to those of the consensus that Yamaha boards are somewhat lacking in sound quality and why that might be, but not so many people of that opinion are engaged in this.  You might be of the opinion that they sound superior, and that's fine, but at least try to point out why instead you think they sound good instead of trying to belittle reputable patents in sound design as mere marketing tactics.   Anyway, what does it matter? After this we're going to use whatever works for us.
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Re: Why no love for the 'sound' of Yamaha digital consoles?
« Reply #169 on: January 08, 2013, 08:22:58 am »


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