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Author Topic: Why no love for the 'sound' of Yamaha digital consoles?  (Read 77303 times)

John Chiara

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Re: Why no love for the 'sound' of Yamaha digital consoles?
« Reply #110 on: January 05, 2013, 10:29:38 pm »

And then into something that's *really* variable... an actual pair of transducers.  Some people replace their headphones after a certain amount of use...

I'd make a small wager that the differences between two makes of console are smaller than the differences between two SM-57's randomly picked from anybody's mic box.
Hmmm...I only have 1 57 in my mic box.
I think the biggest differences are workflows that are developed on the users console. It is like going from a Mackie to an AH Mixwiz. Most remember that you had to run the preamp on the AH at a "higher" setting to get the same operating level on a 58. These kind of ergonomic differences can make something appear 'better' or not the same way a 1db level difference can.
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Justice C. Bigler

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Re: Why no love for the 'sound' of Yamaha digital consoles?
« Reply #111 on: January 05, 2013, 11:08:22 pm »

Presonus is the only pro mixing console manufacturer who sells the preamps from their boards separately.

Mmmgghhh.....I'm sorry, but did you actually just classify Presonus as a manufacturer of professional level mixing consoles?

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Justice C. Bigler
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Jim Baron

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Re: Why no love for the 'sound' of Yamaha digital consoles?
« Reply #112 on: January 05, 2013, 11:40:43 pm »

Mmmgghhh.....I'm sorry, but did you actually just classify Presonus as a manufacturer of professional level mixing consoles?

It's Presonus, not Peavey. They're on riders now.  One major label artist I worked with requested an M7CL for a particular fundraising event, and when one was not available that day, they"settled" for Presonus.  Now they bought 2 SL24.4.2's and travel with them instead.  I get amazing results and lots of follow-up work on those boards, as do other pro engineers.  Don't know why you can't. Or have you tried?
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Jim Baron

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Re: Why no love for the 'sound' of Yamaha digital consoles?
« Reply #113 on: January 05, 2013, 11:45:33 pm »

By the time it gets to your head phones, the signal has been through the preamp, AD converter, signal gain changes (digital multiplications/division), digital EQ/Dynamics and a DA converter … and probably a cheap headphone amp.

Peter, are you suggesting that Yamaha preamps are really great and it's just their headphone amps that possibly suck?
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Justice C. Bigler

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Re: Why no love for the 'sound' of Yamaha digital consoles?
« Reply #114 on: January 06, 2013, 12:38:48 am »

I get amazing results and lots of follow-up work on those boards, as do other pro engineers.  Don't know why you can't. Or have you tried?

The riders that I deal with request PM5D and above. I have two PM5Ds in house, and a CL5 currently. About to buy a pallet of LS9s and 01V96s because they offer a better user interface and more features for the money. I have had ONE single show come through our venue (which has five separate theatre spaces, and a banquet hall, and an art gallery: including a 2,400 seat concert hall) that brought their own Studiolive 16.4.2, and the guy didn't know how to use it, and his show sounded like ass. Even though I had never used one before, I had to show him how to use it. He used that console over our in house PM5D because he "didn't know how to use it", as he said.

I consider myself a theatre guy, and if I'm going to use a digital sound console, it damn well better have automated faders. I work as a full time house tech; as in I get a paycheck for my base salary plus overtime twice a month, have health and retirements benefits, and I clocked over 550 hours of over time last year. I am currently in the job market, and I can pretty much guarantee that when I submit my resume for new gigs, the guys hiring for those jobs won't give one rats ass if I list Presonus on it. They will want to see Yamaha, Avid, Soundcraft, Digico, and Meyer sound consoles on it. But, if they do ask, I can always say, "yeah, I've played with them at Guitar Center a few times...cute little toys".
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 12:40:54 am by Justice C. Bigler »
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Justice C. Bigler
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Spenser Hamilton

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Re: Why no love for the 'sound' of Yamaha digital consoles?
« Reply #115 on: January 06, 2013, 12:48:13 am »

It's Presonus, not Peavey. They're on riders now.  One major label artist I worked with requested an M7CL for a particular fundraising event, and when one was not available that day, they"settled" for Presonus.  Now they bought 2 SL24.4.2's and travel with them instead.  I get amazing results and lots of follow-up work on those boards, as do other pro engineers.  Don't know why you can't. Or have you tried?

I've never seen a SL on a rider. I've seen a few bands travel with them, but those are typically C and B level artists, and they usually opted to use whatever the house provides.
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Jim Baron

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Re: Why no love for the 'sound' of Yamaha digital consoles?
« Reply #116 on: January 06, 2013, 12:55:19 am »

The riders that I deal with request PM5D and above. I have two PM5Ds in house, and a CL5 currently. About to buy a pallet of LS9s and 01V96s because they offer a better user interface and more features for the money. I have had ONE single show come through our venue (which has five separate theatre spaces, and a banquet hall, and an art gallery: including a 2,400 seat concert hall) that brought their own Studiolive 16.4.2, and the guy didn't know how to use it, and his show sounded like ass. Even though I had never used one before, I had to show him how to use it. He used that console over our in house PM5D because he "didn't know how to use it", as he said.

I consider myself a theatre guy, and if I'm going to use a digital sound console, it damn well better have automated faders. I work as a full time house tech; as in I get a paycheck for my base salary plus overtime twice a month, have health and retirements benefits, and I clocked over 550 hours of over time last year. I am currently in the job market, and I can pretty much guarantee that when I submit my resume for new gigs, the guys hiring for those jobs won't give one rats ass if I list Presonus on it. They will want to see Yamaha, Avid, Soundcraft, Digico, and Meyer sound consoles on it. But, if they do ask, I can always say, "yeah, I've played with them at Guitar Center a few times...cute little toys".

There are times when something like an iLive system is in order or a Midas Heritage, and there are times when something like a StudioLive is a sensible solution.  In no way does an LS9 have a better interface.  It has a clear piece of metal where they could have placed dedicated controls but opted instead to lump everything into a little glass window, except for the GEQ on faders, which is why they NEED to be automated.  But back to the topic; there is no sonic advantage to an LS9.
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Peter Morris

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Re: Why no love for the 'sound' of Yamaha digital consoles?
« Reply #117 on: January 06, 2013, 01:36:59 am »

Peter, are you suggesting that Yamaha preamps are really great and it's just their headphone amps that possibly suck?

No … I’m suggesting there is a whole bunch of stuff in the signal chain as well as the mic preamps that should be considered including the headphone drive circuit if that’s where you judge the quality of the desk; which, by the way, can be very ordinary in a live desk, sometimes it’s just an op-amp that struggles to drive all but the highest impedance headphones – I don’t know what’s in an M7, and don’t know how you can separate the sound of the mic preamp from everything else.

There seems to be a trend for everyone to believe the mic preamps are responsible for the entire sound of the desk when there is so much more to consider.   A while back everyone was focused on the EQ section … you need Midas or Neve PEQs … now its mic preamps…
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 08:03:34 am by Peter Morris »
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kristianjohnsen

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Re: Why no love for the 'sound' of Yamaha digital consoles?
« Reply #118 on: January 06, 2013, 08:42:44 am »



There seems to be a trend for everyone to believe the mic preamps are responsible for the entire sound of the desk when there is so much more to consider.   A while back everyone was focused on the EQ section … you need Midas or Neve PEQs … now its mic preamps…

I agree that preamps are just a small portion of the overall sound. 

But I also think many people overexaggerate how impossible it is to compare them:  Whilst not being the same as dismantling a desk and extracting one circuit at a time, on can use things like insert sends and direct out feeds from different desks and route into a switcher or into a summing mixer or whatever to quickly switch between the various preamps to listen for differences. 

There will still be variables, but a lot fewer than just going from desk to desk with your headphones...

Another thing that often isn't considered is how the combined mic+preamp circuit behaves when there is a three-way split AND 250 meters of mic cable attached to the preamp.
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kristianjohnsen

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Re: Why no love for the 'sound' of Yamaha digital consoles?
« Reply #119 on: January 06, 2013, 08:44:23 am »

But it looks like a little bit of the love for Yamaha is coming out in this thread.

That may be because Yamaha products has done right by many people and helped quite a few of us owners actually make some hassle-free money :)
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Why no love for the 'sound' of Yamaha digital consoles?
« Reply #119 on: January 06, 2013, 08:44:23 am »


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