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Author Topic: Size of conduit needed for 24 channel snake cable  (Read 10369 times)

Jonathan Johnson

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Re: Size of conduit needed for 24 channel snake cable
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2012, 11:49:33 pm »

Hate to be the downer here, but it won't make a lick of difference if you glue it or not. With the conduit going inside to outside it will accumulate a very large amount of condensation rather quickly.
That's not to say that it shouldn't be glued, just want you to be aware that it will  end up with water inside no matter what you do.

I would recommend duct seal to prevent air infiltration; this would reduce condensation. But you still want a sump, because the moisture in the air already inside the conduit when you add the duct seal may decide to condense.

Water infiltration is like when your crazy uncle Larry comes for the holidays. It will get in no matter how much you try to keep it out, and it's hard to get rid of. So plan for a way to remove it.

National Electrical Code requires pull points (such as a conduit body or junction box) between every 360 degrees of bends. So you can't have more than four 90 degree bends between pull points. You may want more pull points; it can be tough to pull a large diameter rubber-covered cable around 360 degrees of bends. Use lots of pulling lube.
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Frank DeWitt

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Re: Size of conduit needed for 24 channel snake cable
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2012, 10:58:02 am »

Just for fun lets look at two plans

Plan a  Buy a 100 ft snake,  But 40 ft of 4 in PVC conduit and fittings, clean outs, hangers, duct seal, pull string, ETC.
Punch two holes in the side of the church.
Spend a day playing in the dirt next to the church.
Disguise the holes in the wall with ??? and route the cable to where it is needed.

Plan B  Buy some nice base board.
Build it up in at least two layers like they did in the old days so you have a space   (Think 3/8 by 3/4 board along the wall at floor level.   1 1/4 in above that is a base board molding  In the space is CAT 5  In front of those two boards is another molding.

Run 2 or 3 or 4 CAT5 cables behind it for the length of the church.

Buy the digital board you have been dreaming of (Whole nother discussion.)
Grin every time you hit a button and watch a scene recall.

I realize that Plan B may not be practical or possible for your church right now, It took our church 6 years, but if it is, right now you probably have $1000 and a lot of work vs digital.
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ChuckWillcox

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Re: Size of conduit needed for 24 channel snake cable
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2012, 12:32:55 pm »

A good electrical supply house should have a conduit "drain" fitting.  Keeps criters out but also allows for the water to escape.  Normal to use them in industrial applications to handle water that will be inside of the sealed system.
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Bob L. Wilson

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Re: Size of conduit needed for 24 channel snake cable
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2012, 12:50:54 pm »

Just for fun lets look at two plans

Plan a  Buy a 100 ft snake,  But 40 ft of 4 in PVC conduit and fittings, clean outs, hangers, duct seal, pull string, ETC.
Punch two holes in the side of the church.
Spend a day playing in the dirt next to the church.
Disguise the holes in the wall with ??? and route the cable to where it is needed.

Plan B  Buy some nice base board.
Build it up in at least two layers like they did in the old days so you have a space   (Think 3/8 by 3/4 board along the wall at floor level.   1 1/4 in above that is a base board molding  In the space is CAT 5  In front of those two boards is another molding.

Run 2 or 3 or 4 CAT5 cables behind it for the length of the church.

Buy the digital board you have been dreaming of (Whole nother discussion.)
Grin every time you hit a button and watch a scene recall.

I realize that Plan B may not be practical or possible for your church right now, It took our church 6 years, but if it is, right now you probably have $1000 and a lot of work vs digital.

I am with Frank. This would have been an iffy idea 10 years ago but is just silly today. Every cold space cable run I have ever seen has been nothing but trouble. In five more years analog is going to be as dead as VHS and that is coming from a died in the wool analog guy.

Buy an X32 $2800. Buy one or two S16 digital snakes $900 each. Pull three high quality cat5 cables. I have seen cat5 run all over the place in a historic space with zero visible change by removing and routing grooves in the back of the original baseboards. I am as anti-Behringer as any man alive but our youth convinced me to buy them an X32 for their portable mission team and the console almost lives up to the hype on the web, which is saying something. Ulli claims he has seen the light and has sworn off building junk. He is posting in the clear on major websites, so either he is telling the truth or he is going to need one heck of a fireproof suit and a castle with a moat to keep the pitchfork and torch wielding mob at bay. His Music Group is definitely serious about a presence in the high end of the market, having already bought Midas, Klark Teknik and Turbosound it is only a matter of time until they buy Powersoft or some other top quality touring amplification company. It appears Ulli has tired of fighting Hartley and Greg for the MI market and now wants to go toe to toe with Harman and Bosch as well.
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Frank DeWitt

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Re: Size of conduit needed for 24 channel snake cable
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2012, 03:37:59 pm »

I am with Frank. This would have been an iffy idea 10 years ago but is just silly today. Every cold space cable run I have ever seen has been nothing but trouble. In five more years analog is going to be as dead as VHS and that is coming from a died in the wool analog guy.

Buy an X32 $2800. Buy one or two S16 digital snakes $900 each. Pull three high quality cat5 cables. I have seen cat5 run all over the place in a historic space with zero visible change by removing and routing grooves in the back of the original baseboards.

Snip

Thanks for the "With Frank" Bob.  You may be right, and I hope you are, but just for the record I am recommending digital. I am not recommending Behringer.  Maybe in 15 years if all goes well.  Not now.  For the  $2800 +$900 +$900 I would put in a 32 ch SAC system with IEMs with personal mixers for all the Worship team.
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August Beres

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Re: Size of conduit needed for 24 channel snake cable
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2012, 09:52:45 am »

I have been receiving some good advice from this forum.  I met with our committee and we are going analog with a snake cable run in 4 inch conduit. The condensation problem will have to be dealt with. Would it help if small holes were drilled on the total length of the conduit, say every couple feet? The ends of the conduit will be sealed from inside air.  Any suggestions will be appreciated.
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August Beres

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Re: Size of conduit needed for 24 channel snake cable
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2012, 11:38:23 am »

I'm sorry.  After reading my latest post, I failed to state where the holes in the conduit would be located.  They would be on the bottom. 

Thanks Much,   August
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Bob L. Wilson

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Re: Size of conduit needed for 24 channel snake cable
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2012, 12:14:01 pm »

I'm sorry.  After reading my latest post, I failed to state where the holes in the conduit would be located.  They would be on the bottom. 

Thanks Much,   August

Approximate location of the church?
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Frank DeWitt

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Re: Size of conduit needed for 24 channel snake cable
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2012, 01:31:01 pm »

I'm sorry.  After reading my latest post, I failed to state where the holes in the conduit would be located.  They would be on the bottom. 

Thanks Much,   August

I would worry about bugs ETC.  The bottom line is that there will be some water in there from time to time.  With a slope to the PVC and a sump, there won't be much.  We all know a snake should not be in water but in reality if it is a continues snake, no cuts, no connectors in the conduit I bet it will work for many years.  Also, I suspect that when it fails, it will do so gracefully. A couple of channels will go noisy or fail. the whole thing won't just switch off some Sunday morning.

I would try to go digital, but if I failed I would put in the snake as carefully and as best I could and not worry about it.

Of all the snakes running through conduit burred in concrete floors how many do you think have water in them?  I bet a large number.

BTW for anyone doing a new build or a remodel, our church has a indirect lighting feature that runs the length of the church on both sides.  What this means is there is a trough about 12 in wide at the top and about 16 in deep running full length.  I have thanked the designers of the church many many times for that trough.   If I am ever part of a new church build I will push for some kind of a open top trough to be worked into the architectural design.  Inside it could be about 1.5 in wide and 3 in deep and that would be enough.

 
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August Beres

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Re: Size of conduit needed for 24 channel snake cable
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2012, 02:07:20 pm »

Approximate location of the church?
Our church is located in north east Wisconsin.
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Re: Size of conduit needed for 24 channel snake cable
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2012, 02:07:20 pm »


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