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Author Topic: Wireless Network for Amp/Processor Control  (Read 3679 times)

Nick Pires

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Wireless Network for Amp/Processor Control
« on: December 19, 2012, 10:10:52 AM »

Is anybody networking their SL/SR ampracks (either DSP amps or processors in amp racks) to an FOH PC via wireless?
Just talking about DSP control...not audio.

What are you using for hardware?
What is your configuration?

Thanks in advance.
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Jim Turner

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Re: Wireless Network for Amp/Processor Control
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2012, 12:55:29 PM »

I've got 5G routers installed in my racks for FOH and mons wirelessly controlling my I-techs via System Architect. Works great... I can monitor all aspects of the amps and edit/change dsp on the fly. I just bought the Crown app for my phone that will allow me to monitor and control from there as well, gonna try that at my gig today.
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Chris Johnson [UK]

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Re: Wireless Network for Amp/Processor Control
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2012, 04:23:58 PM »

I recommend ubiquiti wifi systems.

I have a Bullet M5HP with a 9dBi antenna. the whole setup is fully waterproof and I have got good coverage accross whole stadiums with this system. The bullet transmits at 1w so plenty of coverage.

What most people forget though, is that wifi is a 2way affair. Ipads and other tablets with crappy integrated antennae aren't gonna cut it over long distances. The wifi TX capability of an ipad is severely limited by its average antenna buried in a mass of other electronics kit. So, the key to good performance is to use a tablet and external USB wifi device which allows you to seperate the antenna a bit. Edimax to a range of options.

Combine this things and you have a very robust, very compact wifi setup.

A couple of things to think about:

I would encourage you to cable your SL and SR amp worlds to FOH. This should be easy because you presumably already have audio cabling running there anyway, so tape a cat5 to it and your away! If you absolutely cant do this for whatever reason, I recommend powerline ethernet adaptors. Much more reliable than simple wifi systems, and work really well in self contained production power environments. Typically in audio world, all your kit runs off a central distro anyway, so these systems work well. Solwise are my manufacturer of choice.

So, in summary:
- Solwise Powerline adapters in each amp rack
- Switch and Ubiquiti bullet at FOH
- Tablet with high quality external wifi unit for roaming.

Job done!

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Nick Pires

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Re: Wireless Network for Amp/Processor Control
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2012, 04:40:41 PM »

Thanks Chris.
I was actually considering a power line network. I am not well versed in how these operate, and was curious if it might introduce noise into the system.
The venues we work in are not that large, so I am not as worried about range.
My biggest concern is how to configure the routers, and what routers will work properly from inside an amp rack. I'd love to find a router with a detachable antenna that I can mount on a blank rack panel.

 
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Steve Anderson

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Re: Wireless Network for Amp/Processor Control
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2012, 06:27:02 AM »

I recommend ubiquiti wifi systems.

I have a Bullet M5HP with a 9dBi antenna. the whole setup is fully waterproof...

Worth noting the reason they are so strong and waterproof is that they are designed for the WISP market  (Wireless ISPs)

I have been an evangelist for Ubiquiti for prob 4 or 5 years. Have yet to have a failure in about 30 units. And half a dozen of those I throw in and out of packers all the time.

Lately been using the UniFi units. Have three that travel. Labelled A, B and C. A is always wired. B is setup so if wired connects via wire, and if not back links or uplinks to unit A. Likewise, C will fail over for wireless to unit B. Makes life pretty flexible. They do now have a dual range UniFi. one could set uplink to 5 GHz and user connections to 2.4... then the half speed penalty for wireless uplinking wouldn't rear its ugly head. Not that it's ever been a problem for me. I mostly use for Lake Controller and iPad control of M7CL/LS9 on stage.

Just wish they made black models!

[edit]
Oh yes, I've yet to suffer from interference with other units, maybe they're set for full power or something. So even in places where there is a "ubiquitous" wireless lan installed, I still seem to win ;D
« Last Edit: December 21, 2012, 06:30:16 AM by Steve Anderson »
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Bob Charest

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Re: Wireless Network for Amp/Processor Control
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2012, 01:07:33 PM »

Thanks Chris.
I was actually considering a power line network. I am not well versed in how these operate, and was curious if it might introduce noise into the system.
The venues we work in are not that large, so I am not as worried about range.
My biggest concern is how to configure the routers, and what routers will work properly from inside an amp rack. I'd love to find a router with a detachable antenna that I can mount on a blank rack panel.
Hi Nick, I love our Ubiquiti Bullet 5GHz Access Point.  It is cabled to our router which is in the rack - configuration of the Acess Point is straightforward with a static IP. The qualcom antenna we use with it is also very robust. Simple and reliable.
Best regards,
Bob
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Chris Johnson [UK]

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Re: Wireless Network for Amp/Processor Control
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2012, 04:11:31 PM »

Thanks Chris.
I was actually considering a power line network. I am not well versed in how these operate, and was curious if it might introduce noise into the system.
The venues we work in are not that large, so I am not as worried about range.
My biggest concern is how to configure the routers, and what routers will work properly from inside an amp rack. I'd love to find a router with a detachable antenna that I can mount on a blank rack panel.

Hi Nick,

Basically, Powerline networks work by modulating the ethernet data as a high frequency transmission accross multiple carriers. I can't recall what frequencies it operates on, but its somewhere up in the >1MHz area. So, as such, it does induce 'noise' onto the mains line, but this is waaay above anything that could be induced into audio circuits. Not to mention, I doubt it would get past the mains filtration present in amplifier PSUs anyway.

So, in short, I've never had a noise issue.

In this scenario, you only need 1 wireless access point at FOH, the remaining amps are just connected via ethernet switches in each rack, to the powerline network.

To be clear, my setup does not use a router, just an access point. I always set everything up with a static IP. This is partly because it elminates DHCP issues, but also because I can have a document to hand which tells me exactly what IP every device is on, without looking at router lease tables. That way, troubleshooting becomes easier, as does identifying devices.
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Chris Johnson [UK]

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Re: Wireless Network for Amp/Processor Control
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2012, 04:13:24 PM »

Worth noting the reason they are so strong and waterproof is that they are designed for the WISP market  (Wireless ISPs)

I have been an evangelist for Ubiquiti for prob 4 or 5 years. Have yet to have a failure in about 30 units. And half a dozen of those I throw in and out of packers all the time.

Lately been using the UniFi units. Have three that travel. Labelled A, B and C. A is always wired. B is setup so if wired connects via wire, and if not back links or uplinks to unit A. Likewise, C will fail over for wireless to unit B. Makes life pretty flexible. They do now have a dual range UniFi. one could set uplink to 5 GHz and user connections to 2.4... then the half speed penalty for wireless uplinking wouldn't rear its ugly head. Not that it's ever been a problem for me. I mostly use for Lake Controller and iPad control of M7CL/LS9 on stage.

Just wish they made black models!

Absolutely. Go Pro or go home I say. Same with switches. If you want long term reliability on things like Dante networks (which are show critical), go managed, and go cisco/HP procurve/etc... But thats another discussion...

Interesting to hear you like the UniFi products. I've been keeping my eye on them for a while. Might go down that route in future...

Chris
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Re: Wireless Network for Amp/Processor Control
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2012, 04:13:24 PM »


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