ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down

Author Topic: Avid Mix Rack - Clear Com  (Read 5621 times)

Al Rettich

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 355
Avid Mix Rack - Clear Com
« on: December 19, 2012, 06:51:17 pm »

Hey everyone. I hope all are getting ready for a great Christmas.

I'm finishing up a string of dates mixing FOH and we did a fly date yesterday and I saw something I had never seen before. Wondering how and if any of you knew how to do it.

The systems guy mixed the opening act and I saw that set up behind him was a TP beltpack system with a flasher. When the flasher went off his console lights blinked on and off.

Sadly, I never dealt to deep on the events of the Avid system but I want to include that on our next run. I like it. So, anyone know how he did it??
Logged

Thomas Lamb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 531
Re: Avid Mix Rack - Clear Com
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2012, 07:00:05 pm »

He used the GPI ports on the console. He either had a belt pack that had output for a relay or modified the call light on the pack or a blazon or the like. You wire it to the Gpi port and write an action that when the GPI port is either opened or closed that it will flash the lights. Or mute the master buss or a vca or SIP the lead guitar thought the rig or whatever you want. The actions tab is where you setup tap tempo to function switches of footswitches or whatever.
Logged
bigTlamb

"If you suck on a functional analog desk, you'll really suck on a complex digital desk...." Dick Rees

Chris Johnson [UK]

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 446
Re: Avid Mix Rack - Clear Com
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2012, 07:01:40 pm »

There are a number of ways to do this. But a lot of 2 wire to 4wire converters (comms parlance for clearcom-style unbalanced audio w/ power to balanced audio converter) include relay outputs for call signalling. This can be connected to a GPI input or footswitch jack and trigger an event to flash the console lights.
Logged
Riedel Communications

Al Rettich

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 355
Re: Avid Mix Rack - Clear Com
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2012, 08:26:22 pm »

My monitor engineer seems to think that it won't work with SC48's (which is what we normally carry on this gig), as he seems to think you would fry the GPI with the voltage if you come directly out of a beltpack. Just need to find someone who can build a box for us, as my monitor guy wants it too.
There are a number of ways to do this. But a lot of 2 wire to 4wire converters (comms parlance for clearcom-style unbalanced audio w/ power to balanced audio converter) include relay outputs for call signalling. This can be connected to a GPI input or footswitch jack and trigger an event to flash the console lights.
Logged

Mac Kerr

  • Old enough to know better
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6565
  • Audio Plumber
Re: Avid Mix Rack - Clear Com
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2012, 08:47:05 pm »

My monitor engineer seems to think that it won't work with SC48's (which is what we normally carry on this gig), as he seems to think you would fry the GPI with the voltage if you come directly out of a beltpack. Just need to find someone who can build a box for us, as my monitor guy wants it too.

A Bud box and a couple of connectors, and THIS should do it for ya.

Mac


« Last Edit: December 19, 2012, 09:00:01 pm by Mac Kerr »
Logged

Al Rettich

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 355
Re: Avid Mix Rack - Clear Com
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2012, 09:01:01 pm »

Mac, YOU ARE THE MAN!!! Thank you..
A Bud box and a couple of connectors, and THIS should do it for ya.

Mac
Logged

David Buckley

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 565
Re: Avid Mix Rack - Clear Com
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2012, 04:49:12 am »

Note of caution - the spec Mac quotes above notes that the grounds on the GPI socket are connected to mains ground, whereas pin 1 of the TP comms system ground is isolated from mains ground.  Just connecting the two together could cause annoyances like clicks as the followspot op's belt pack touches the truss as he swings about....

Modding a Blazon would be easiest, just pop a relay in there.  I've not taken a Blazon to bits, but I would wager the strobe module is 12v powered, and thus a 12V "ice cube" relay would provide the necessary isolation.
Logged

Thomas Lamb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 531
Re: Avid Mix Rack - Clear Com
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2012, 08:09:58 am »

Note of caution - the spec Mac quotes above notes that the grounds on the GPI socket are connected to mains ground, whereas pin 1 of the TP comms system ground is isolated from mains ground.  Just connecting the two together could cause annoyances like clicks as the followspot op's belt pack touches the truss as he swings about....

Modding a Blazon would be easiest, just pop a relay in there.  I've not taken a Blazon to bits, but I would wager the strobe module is 12v powered, and thus a 12V "ice cube" relay would provide the necessary isolation.

+1 but if what Mac proposed would work I would be interested in that from a cost perspective. There may be a way to work a relay into that also inside that project box which would allow for isolation and give you a simple contact closure.
Logged
bigTlamb

"If you suck on a functional analog desk, you'll really suck on a complex digital desk...." Dick Rees

Mac Kerr

  • Old enough to know better
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6565
  • Audio Plumber
Re: Avid Mix Rack - Clear Com
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2012, 11:32:47 am »

Note of caution - the spec Mac quotes above notes that the grounds on the GPI socket are connected to mains ground, whereas pin 1 of the TP comms system ground is isolated from mains ground.  Just connecting the two together could cause annoyances like clicks as the followspot op's belt pack touches the truss as he swings about....

Modding a Blazon would be easiest, just pop a relay in there.  I've not taken a Blazon to bits, but I would wager the strobe module is 12v powered, and thus a 12V "ice cube" relay would provide the necessary isolation.

Even the 12V supply needs to be regulated down to 5V to get under the 5.5V maximum voltage on the GPI.

Mac

Logged

Chris Johnson [UK]

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 446
Re: Avid Mix Rack - Clear Com
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2012, 04:16:16 pm »

The best way to do this is via a 2-4 interface, for a number of reasons:

First, something like a EF701 allows you to not only send call signalling into the console, but also allows your monitor engineer to talk to and listen to the comms channel via the desk. This is very useful as it allows you to have a combined talkback & comms environment where the engineer can keep his IEMs in and use a single talk mic.

Secondly, an EF701 has a bunch of other uses (like interfacing with radio systems)
Logged
Riedel Communications

Geoff Doane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 820
  • Halifax, NS
Re: Avid Mix Rack - Clear Com
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2012, 09:58:09 pm »

Even the 12V supply needs to be regulated down to 5V to get under the 5.5V maximum voltage on the GPI.

Mac

The maximum spec for the GPI input is 5.5V, but it is an active low, with an internal pull-up resistor to its internal 5V.  Applying 5V to the input won't do anything.  It's looking for a ground to change state.

I'd probably use an opto-isolator for this, since they're small, cheap, and fairly tolerant of different input voltages.  The quick drawing below shows a suggested hookup diagram for the first one I found a data sheet for in a Google search.  If you're not familiar with these, a current flowing through the LED will cause the transistor to conduct.  The light from the LED acts as the base of the transistor.  In this case, 12V on the input will give you about 2 mA through the LED.  The minimum current transfer in the device is 50%, so that will cause 1 mA to flow through the output side, which is enough to drag the 5V on the GPI input (held up by a 5K resistor) down to 0 V, and the input will be active.

The resistor value is not very critical.  It really just needs to limit the current to something less than what the LED can withstand, which is 50 mA.  The same circuit could handle 24, or even 30V at the input without anything blowing up.  And because it uses an opto-isolator, there's no danger of contaminated grounds anywhere, or relay coil transients.

GTD
Logged

Al Rettich

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 355
Re: Avid Mix Rack - Clear Com
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2012, 11:44:35 pm »

Please do tell a bit more.. I'd like to learn. What & where do I get a EF701?
The best way to do this is via a 2-4 interface, for a number of reasons:

First, something like a EF701 allows you to not only send call signalling into the console, but also allows your monitor engineer to talk to and listen to the comms channel via the desk. This is very useful as it allows you to have a combined talkback & comms environment where the engineer can keep his IEMs in and use a single talk mic.

Secondly, an EF701 has a bunch of other uses (like interfacing with radio systems)
Logged

Al Rettich

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 355
Re: Avid Mix Rack - Clear Com
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2012, 11:50:46 pm »

Is there a website that teaches you about GPI? It's something I knew the consoles had, but was never really shown, or taught about. Now I want to try and take some initiative and learn about it.
Hey everyone. I hope all are getting ready for a great Christmas.

I'm finishing up a string of dates mixing FOH and we did a fly date yesterday and I saw something I had never seen before. Wondering how and if any of you knew how to do it.

The systems guy mixed the opening act and I saw that set up behind him was a TP beltpack system with a flasher. When the flasher went off his console lights blinked on and off.

Sadly, I never dealt to deep on the events of the Avid system but I want to include that on our next run. I like it. So, anyone know how he did it??
Logged

Mac Kerr

  • Old enough to know better
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6565
  • Audio Plumber
Re: Avid Mix Rack - Clear Com
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2012, 12:12:49 am »

Please do tell a bit more.. I'd like to learn. What & where do I get a EF701?

The Clear Com EF-701 4 wire adapter should be available from any Clear Com dealer. Using 4 wire interfaces is pretty common in high level intercom, like TV comm. If you are running comm very long distances you can turn the unbalanced powered comm channel into an unpowered balanced send and return. This will keep induced noise down, but will require a power supply at each end. By making an balanced line level in and out, you can also interface the comm to other audio gear, like a console.

Matrix comm systems like Riedel Artist, RTS Adam, and Clear Com Eclipse, are all based on routing balanced audio, and operate in 4 wire mode all the time. To use a 2 wire system like Clear Com beltpacks you need to use a 2W-4W interface. In TV there are often many channels of 2W-4W conversion going on.

The EF-701 is a single channel device, for more channels CC has the CCI-22 card that goes in a card frame for up to 11 two channel interfaces in 3RU.

Mac
Logged

Mac Kerr

  • Old enough to know better
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6565
  • Audio Plumber
Re: Avid Mix Rack - Clear Com
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2012, 12:16:23 am »

Is there a website that teaches you about GPI? It's something I knew the consoles had, but was never really shown, or taught about. Now I want to try and take some initiative and learn about it.

Ii don't know of a website, but any console that has GPI (General Purpose Interface) ports should have a list in the manual of what functions can be controlled from the GPI ins, and how you can trigger the GPI outs. The ins are often used in theater for an external GO button to select the next scene. The GPI outs can be used to start a playback machine from a UDK, or a scene change.

Generally they operate at TTL levels, with both high and low triggers that you select in software.

Mac
Logged

kristianjohnsen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1063
  • Lillehammer, Norway
    • Lillehammer Lyd og Lys
Re: Avid Mix Rack - Clear Com
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2012, 03:56:11 am »

Ii don't know of a website, but any console that has GPI (General Purpose Interface) ports should have a list in the manual of what functions can be controlled from the GPI ins, and how you can trigger the GPI outs. The ins are often used in theater for an external GO button to select the next scene. The GPI outs can be used to start a playback machine from a UDK, or a scene change.

Generally they operate at TTL levels, with both high and low triggers that you select in software.

Mac

Also used in studios to trigger red lights by doors, etc.  I know some broadcast studios have GPI router matrixes bacause different techs use so many different options.
Logged

Chris Johnson [UK]

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 446
Re: Avid Mix Rack - Clear Com
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2012, 04:18:25 pm »

Also used in studios to trigger red lights by doors, etc.  I know some broadcast studios have GPI router matrixes bacause different techs use so many different options.

Yes. When I'm not mixing FOH, I build and operate larger matrix intercom systems for live events.

"Proper comms" systems have GPI functionality built into the matrix, so typically I would setup the intercom matrix to handle all the audio routing for everything that isnt the FOH or Mon mix, and include in that any necessary signalling between devices. Its perfectly possible to implement a Cue light system through a matrix intercom.

One of my next projects will be to create a simple way of triggering a Clearcom/ASL beacon via a GPO and a simple PSU. This would allow me to implement shout systems that are routed through a matrix or consoles, but that still retain strobe functionality for users who aren't in constant listen (like FOH engineers...)

Logged
Riedel Communications

David Buckley

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 565
Re: Avid Mix Rack - Clear Com
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2012, 07:07:26 pm »

Even the 12V supply needs to be regulated down to 5V to get under the 5.5V maximum voltage on the GPI

The relay takes care of that; as others have noted, the GPI requires contact closure to ground, rather than a voltage feed.  As the GPI input is already held up to 5V then supplying 5V to it won't cause it to switch state.

Geoff has suggested usin an opto isolator, and that would also work nicely, but for folks not used to soldering around a the chip level, a relay is much less challenging :)
Logged

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Avid Mix Rack - Clear Com
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2012, 07:07:26 pm »


Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
 



Page created in 0.042 seconds with 24 queries.