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Author Topic: Which 4 dual 18 reflex cabinets?  (Read 12086 times)

g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: Which 4 dual 18 reflex cabinets?
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2012, 04:55:07 pm »



Above and beyond all this my buddy who's helping me with this system is a Fullsail graduate and has been the Engineer on many large rigs one of his favorites being 32 KF850's per side. 

You just lost the last shred of whatever credibility you might have had.
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Stu McDoniel

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Re: Which 4 dual 18 reflex cabinets?
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2012, 06:06:19 pm »

Just curious: why?
You want to double the power that PS Digam 5000 puts out per channel.
2X RMS is what you want.   The EAW bin is rated at 700watts RMS per loudspeaker (2 per box).
The amp you listed puts out 750watts RMS per channel with an 8 ohm load.
Go for an amp that puts up closer to 1400wpc @8ohms. (with the EAW boxes)
Considering the price of the cabs and the Power soft amps your budget is limited.
However, you never stated how many boxes you wanted and how many amps you wanted.
Just pointing out that no matter what box you choose shoot for 2x the RMS rating for power.
Just to CMA here im gonna say make SURE you run a limiter as well. :)
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Which 4 dual 18 reflex cabinets?
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2012, 07:15:39 pm »

Above and beyond all this my buddy who's helping me with this system is a Fullsail graduate and has been the Engineer on many large rigs one of his favorites being 32 KF850's per side.  Now he's not so into going over gear like this that's why I came here but he keeps saying it doesn't matter so much what the system is capable of producing but rather how he will make it sound perceptively louder no matter what I buy.

That explains a lot.

It's true that sometimes Ivan's explanations are a little over the top, but it's a rare day when his advice isn't on the money. There is an educational program for serious soundmen, and it's not at Fullsail. It's at Syn-Aud-Con. Ivan has been through their courses. Several others here have as well. There are also training programs from almost all of the major manufacturers, all of these are available to anyone who wants to learn. Syn-Aud-Con costs real money, most of the rest are free. If you don't understand the implications of what Ivan has been saying, you might ask for an explanation, or do some research on your own to learn about it. Whining about the free help you are getting from experienced working professionals isn't going to get you far.

Mac
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Randall Hyde

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Re: Which 4 dual 18 reflex cabinets?
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2012, 08:40:25 pm »

Ok so after going over everything and talking about ideas with ppl I will be working with I've come up with a criteria that should make my decision about a system fairly limited it looks.

1 - Must be dual 18 reflex cabinets
2 - Runs off of one 20A preferably and if not then two 20A.  No 30A.
3 - Still in production.
4 - $14,000 budget for speakers and amps.

Some top picks I've seen so far:
DB Tech S20
RCF TTS36a   - If they can be found at that price point.

EAW SB1000z  - Still sticking this one in here cause it's low power requirement.  I could keep and use a Powersoft Digam5000 to power them well.

JBL STX828s

Bold 218  - Is the wild card - It's wild card status is due to it not being a widely recognised name and a new company

Thought's on these and any others I could look at would be greatly appreciated.  The system will get alot of bass heavy EDM as well as live rock and jam bands.  Probably more so the DJ stuff, tho I'm trying to break out of that more.

Thanks -Mark

If you want high output, drop the 2x18 and take a serious look at Danley. Yeah, they make dual 18s too, but the TH series is probably where you want to go with the budget you're talking about. Used, you can easily get TH115 cabinets for around $1,500 each. They're incredibly sensitive, so you can probably run a pile of them off 20A.
Cheers,
Randy Hyde
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Which 4 dual 18 reflex cabinets?
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2012, 08:56:46 pm »

  I tend to ignore numbers almost completely and go with opinions from ppl who have used the gear and how it compares because the numbers are just that only numbers that often reflect nothing in the real world. 

Above and beyond all this my buddy who's helping me with this system is a Fullsail graduate and has been the Engineer on many large rigs one of his favorites being 32 KF850's per side.  Now he's not so into going over gear like this that's why I came here but he keeps saying it doesn't matter so much what the system is capable of producing but rather how he will make it sound perceptively louder no matter what I buy.
Yes the numbers can get stretched a bit by some manufacturers.  However they get stretched A LOT MORE by people who don't under stand specs and how to read them.

Once you start to understand the numbers, what is achievable and so forth, then (and only then) can you start to be able to "read through" the specs and what might be achievable.  Are the number believable (as stated earlier by Marjan)?

The people who don't understand what is going on (in any industry) are the ones who tend to dismiss the facts.

Opinions are great-but they have to be based on reality.

Accurate specs are a good way to start to compare products.  Unless you have somebody who has done side by side comparisons with the products in question, then you have no basis to go on.

How do you tell who is correct when they say "ABC sub is da-bomb- believe me".  You will often get these from people who have not actually heard the other ones. So they are basing their opinion on what?  At least specs are a start.  But agreed they don't tell the whole story.  But they tell a lot more than an opinion.

For what it is worth- (and I am not trying to offend anybody on this board by this), but out of all of the full sail guys I have meet and worked with, only 2 were worth anything.

And those 2 would be good even if they didn't go to full sail.  They are just that kind of person. 

Nothing against full sail-but typically the people that I have meet think they know a lot more than they really do.  I don't know if this comes from their character or the school.

Others experiences may be different.
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Mark J Snyder

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Re: Which 4 dual 18 reflex cabinets?
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2012, 04:19:48 am »

Opinions are great-but they have to be based on reality.

Accurate specs are a good way to start to compare products.  Unless you have somebody who has done side by side comparisons with the products in question, then you have no basis to go on.

That's all I've been looking for is comparisons by ppl who have experienced these models.  I'm not asking for direct answers of what to buy.  A side by side comparison is not going to happen for me so how else do I get any idea but to ask those who have? Or at least heard each in use somewhere.  When I first mentioned SB1000 I got alot of this that will beat it ect.  I also got product A B here will outperform just about anything out there.  Ok???

Sorry about earlier I'm overly stressed with this right now as I need to make a move on a purchase soon so even tho I agree I need to learn all the things I was told here I don't have the luxury of time to do so now.  Will I someday?  Yes I have lots of reading material and the motivation to learn. 

As for Fullsail I know it doesn't have a good rep my buddy who went there said he's only gotten along with 1 other person who graduated from there and that he went for the piece of paper.  I only wanted to state that he knows what he's talking about in some way you all might believe it.  It's been 10 years since he graduated and in that time he engineered for a place in Florida that was an EAW house and he's worked on rigs from 850's to 750's to 760's.  So I tend to believe he's got some good working knowlege.

The more I get into all this the more it's looking like there's not a terribly huge difference among the cabinets I've suggested and I'm just splitting hairs at this point.  My buddy is telling me to worry less about what everything is capable of and just wait and see how he's going to make it sound bigger than it is.  Understand my conflict here.  I have him telling me one thing and you guys here another.  Now not direct conflicts and he agrees with what I relay to him from here but also tells me it's less important that I'm thinking.  I'm paying him some now but more later when the gigs come in and I can have him work with me.  So the pressure's on we need to make money and sooner not later. 
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Marjan Milosevic

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Re: Which 4 dual 18 reflex cabinets?
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2012, 05:59:18 am »

That's all I've been looking for is comparisons by ppl who have experienced these models.  I'm not asking for direct answers of what to buy.  A side by side comparison is not going to happen for me so how else do I get any idea but to ask those who have? Or at least heard each in use somewhere.  When I first mentioned SB1000 I got alot of this that will beat it ect.  I also got product A B here will outperform just about anything out there.  Ok???

Sorry about earlier I'm overly stressed with this right now as I need to make a move on a purchase soon so even tho I agree I need to learn all the things I was told here I don't have the luxury of time to do so now.  Will I someday?  Yes I have lots of reading material and the motivation to learn. 

As for Fullsail I know it doesn't have a good rep my buddy who went there said he's only gotten along with 1 other person who graduated from there and that he went for the piece of paper.  I only wanted to state that he knows what he's talking about in some way you all might believe it.  It's been 10 years since he graduated and in that time he engineered for a place in Florida that was an EAW house and he's worked on rigs from 850's to 750's to 760's.  So I tend to believe he's got some good working knowlege.

The more I get into all this the more it's looking like there's not a terribly huge difference among the cabinets I've suggested and I'm just splitting hairs at this point. My buddy is telling me to worry less about what everything is capable of and just wait and see how he's going to make it sound bigger than it is.  Understand my conflict here.  I have him telling me one thing and you guys here another.  Now not direct conflicts and he agrees with what I relay to him from here but also tells me it's less important that I'm thinking.  I'm paying him some now but more later when the gigs come in and I can have him work with me.  So the pressure's on we need to make money and sooner not later.

Really? That is possible? He discovered the holly grail or something magical that all of us have no clue about it?
Dont get fooled with that kind of nonsense please.

Ivan Beaver

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Re: Which 4 dual 18 reflex cabinets?
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2012, 06:39:29 am »

Really? That is possible? He discovered the holly grail or something magical that all of us have no clue about it?
Dont get fooled with that kind of nonsense please.
Agreed.  When somebody make a comment like that, I ask for more SPECIFICS.  What can HE do that others can't?  WHAT is he going to adjust?  And that statement is based on WHAT?

Sounds like a lot of "fluff"and over confidence (typical of most of the Full Sail graduates I have met) if you ask me-and he is con the OP.

In my opinion, getting a better tool would be a better approach, rather than listening to somebody who says "whatever you get I can make sound better".  Better than what it is capable of?

I think we all are still waiting for an explanation about what is so special about a dual 18" sub.  And nothing else is considered.

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gary makovsky

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Re: Which 4 dual 18 reflex cabinets?
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2012, 11:13:21 am »

we have "play time" often in the warehouse when there are free nights.  Always doin side by sides.  By far the lowest- the Xyons, by far the most efficient- the Danleys. We recently just had the Martins and were really impressed sound quality wise (as to why I suggested to check out). You have to figure what is most important to you. For me, past year I have used 4 Danley Minis and they have performed well in most all venues. I'm the "Weekend Warrior" and have been leaving the trailer behind and use an SUV only. Light and portable is most important to me. I'm sure you are familiar with Yankee Bootleggers in you area? Last month I had the Minis there, after the first song the DJ guy came to me and said: First where are the huge stacks of subs, I hear amazing lows but don't see any sub stacks, Second, Please turn it down the bar can't hear drink orders. My Minis may not go the lowest but they sure do put the "P" in punch.

I can let ya know when we have the next "play time"
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Which 4 dual 18 reflex cabinets?
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2012, 05:41:55 pm »

we have "play time" often in the warehouse when there are free nights.  Always doin side by sides.  By far the lowest- the Xyons, by far the most efficient- the Danleys. We recently just had the Martins and were really impressed sound quality wise (as to why I suggested to check out). You have to figure what is most important to you. For me, past year I have used 4 Danley Minis and they have performed well in most all venues. I'm the "Weekend Warrior" and have been leaving the trailer behind and use an SUV only. Light and portable is most important to me. I'm sure you are familiar with Yankee Bootleggers in you area? Last month I had the Minis there, after the first song the DJ guy came to me and said: First where are the huge stacks of subs, I hear amazing lows but don't see any sub stacks, Second, Please turn it down the bar can't hear drink orders. My Minis may not go the lowest but they sure do put the "P" in punch.

I can let ya know when we have the next "play time"
Just for clarification-the Danley TH minis in question have the highest low freq cutoff of any Danley products (all the others go lower) and the lowest sensitivity of any of the Danley Pro subs-this does not count the home theater subs-which go much lower and have a lower sensitivity.

So comparing a small single 12" to a much larger double 18" is a bit of  stretch.  The TH115 or Th118 would be a better cabinet to compare with 2x18"
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Ivan Beaver
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Re: Which 4 dual 18 reflex cabinets?
┬ź Reply #19 on: December 20, 2012, 05:41:55 pm ┬╗


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