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Author Topic: Bose Panarray 402 vs JBL control 28  (Read 7710 times)

Gary Fitzpatrick

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Bose Panarray 402 vs JBL control 28
« on: December 14, 2012, 12:27:21 pm »

I am redesigning the PA system in a small chapel, and I am deciding between installing Bose Panarray 402's and JBL control 28.

Some Background
The room is approx 20m long x 10m wide x 6 m high. This will be a system for speech only and very light background music.

Depending on the final choice, I am thinking of installing four speakers in total...2 at the front L & R and 2 about half way down, again L & R.

Total budget is approx 3000 for the entire system. What would you recommend from either the bose 402 or the JBL? Or do you have any other ideas in that price range?

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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Bose Panarray 402 vs JBL control 28
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2012, 05:05:40 pm »

I am redesigning the PA system in a small chapel, and I am deciding between installing Bose Panarray 402's and JBL control 28.

Some Background
The room is approx 20m long x 10m wide x 6 m high. This will be a system for speech only and very light background music.

Depending on the final choice, I am thinking of installing four speakers in total...2 at the front L & R and 2 about half way down, again L & R.

Total budget is approx 3000 for the entire system. What would you recommend from either the bose 402 or the JBL? Or do you have any other ideas in that price range?
Since you are talking about speech-I would suggest a system that give the greatest clarity. 

So using the same number of speakers, I would use a single speaker in the middle up front with a speaker off to the left and one to the right aimed down to cover the seats on the sides towards the front.

Then use a single delay out into the room.  You will need 3 DSP channels for this-but the sound quality would be better than a pair of l/r speakers and l/r delays.

I have never used the JBL control 28, but have installed quite a few of the control 29's and they did a good job.

I would imagine they would have a higher sensitivity than the Bose-which can mean a smaller amp (so less money).  But not sure of that exactly.
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Scott Carneval

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Re: Bose Panarray 402 vs JBL control 28
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2012, 07:22:21 pm »

I've worked pretty extensively with the Control 28's, but never tried to use them for primary speakers in a public address.  Spoken word has a very high dynamic range, make sure you put a compressor on the mic(s) to tame any peaks. 
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Brad Weber

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Re: Bose Panarray 402 vs JBL control 28
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2012, 11:32:13 am »

I am redesigning the PA system in a small chapel, and I am deciding between installing Bose Panarray 402's and JBL control 28.
What is the existing system?  Are you simply trying to obtain some general improvement or are you trying to address some specific problems or deficiencies in the existing system?  What led you to narrow the choices down to the these two particular models?

Some Background
The room is approx 20m long x 10m wide x 6 m high. This will be a system for speech only and very light background music.
What are the room finishes and how are the room acoustics?

Depending on the final choice, I am thinking of installing four speakers in total...2 at the front L & R and 2 about half way down, again L & R.
Is the intent to have a mono system with each speaker covering approximately 1/4 of the room (a 10m deep by 5m wide area)?  How high would the speakers be mounted?

Total budget is approx 3000 for the entire system.
What is "the entire system"?  Is that the speaker system or the everything system including cabling, connectors, equipment racks, etc.? Will the system as currently planned include any speaker processing?
 
What would you recommend from either the bose 402 or the JBL? Or do you have any other ideas in that price range?
Really need some of the information noted above to have much of a basis for any response, especially the goals for and expectations of the new system.
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Gary Fitzpatrick

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Re: Bose Panarray 402 vs JBL control 28
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2012, 01:03:30 pm »

What is the existing system?  Are you simply trying to obtain some general improvement or are you trying to address some specific problems or deficiencies in the existing system?  What led you to narrow the choices down to the these two particular models?

The existing system is an old system....just two phillips 70v column speakers at the front of the chapel, fed by a TOA mixer amp. The current speakers do not provide sufficient coverage for the chapel. Halfway down the sound level is insufficient.
Also, they are looking for additional microphone points in the gallery for the choir. The existing mixer-amp only has 3 microphone inputs, and I now need at least 7 inputs, so I am going to update the existing mixer while I am at it.

 I have been working with the brands which my local distributer stocks, whom I have a good relationship with.

I have also now started to strongly consider the JBL CBT 70J speaker system. This falls into my price range.

Quote
What are the room finishes and how are the room acoustics?

Room finish is painted concrete walls, wooden floor, wooden pews, wooden ceiling, no windows on one side, and 4 large (1.5m x 4m) windows on the other side.

Quote
Is the intent to have a mono system with each speaker covering approximately 1/4 of the room (a 10m deep by 5m wide area)?  How high would the speakers be mounted?

The intent is indeed to have a mono system. Either two speakers at the front covering half of the room each, or a more distributed system. I have not finalised on the exact design just yet. Just looking for opinions.

after talking to my distributer, I am thinking of either mounting 2 CBT 70J's at the front quite high...maybe 4m high, or 4 CBT50's, mounted lower...about 2m high, 2 at the front and 2 half way down.

Quote
What is "the entire system"?  Is that the speaker system or the everything system including cabling, connectors, equipment racks, etc.? Will the system as currently planned include any speaker processing?

The "entire system" is the entire speaker system...so speakers,amps, speaker processing. Does not include cables, connectors, mixer or anything like that.

The intent is to create an improved listening environment, with better quality sound, and better coverage. It is going to be a vocal only system, with max sound levels of about 80 dBA


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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Bose Panarray 402 vs JBL control 28
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2012, 02:03:36 pm »


The intent is indeed to have a mono system. Either two speakers at the front covering half of the room each, or a more distributed system. I have not finalised on the exact design just yet. Just looking for opinions.


The problem with the idea of having 2 speakers, and each cover half of the room is fine-as long as there is a big open area down the middle.

The 2 speakers will interact-and since the levels will be pretty much the same at that point, and the arrival time will not, then there will be all sorts of interaction/cancellations in the middle.  This will change from seat to seat as the distances will be different.

Hence the reason for suggesting a REAL mono system-with a single speaker to cover most of the room.

And since the fills and delays would be run at lower levels, the interactions would not be as bad.
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Gary Fitzpatrick

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Re: Bose Panarray 402 vs JBL control 28
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2012, 03:05:15 pm »

The problem with the idea of having 2 speakers, and each cover half of the room is fine-as long as there is a big open area down the middle.

The 2 speakers will interact-and since the levels will be pretty much the same at that point, and the arrival time will not, then there will be all sorts of interaction/cancellations in the middle.  This will change from seat to seat as the distances will be different.

Hence the reason for suggesting a REAL mono system-with a single speaker to cover most of the room.

And since the fills and delays would be run at lower levels, the interactions would not be as bad.

Thanks Ivan. That makes sense. So for example...using a single CBT 70J in the middle front, and using smaller speakers as fills towards the back maybe? or at the very front?
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Bose Panarray 402 vs JBL control 28
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2012, 03:50:12 pm »

Thanks Ivan. That makes sense. So for example...using a single CBT 70J in the middle front, and using smaller speakers as fills towards the back maybe? or at the very front?
Exact placement would depend on where you could put the loudspeakers and what the coverage would be.

I was simply throwing out a "standard" layout.  You should model the coverage to be sure.

I have no experience with those speakers-so don't want to offer a design-just a general idea.
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Mike Sweel

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Re: Bose Panarray 402 vs JBL control 28
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2012, 03:25:06 am »

Maybe you can consider about Alcons audio VR8 or Q systems. It is much better then JBL, but you must add few .
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Brad Weber

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Re: Bose Panarray 402 vs JBL control 28
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2012, 09:40:44 am »

Maybe you can consider about Alcons audio VR8 or Q systems. It is much better then JBL, but you must add few .
How would you apply these?
 
Gary, you may already know all this so please excuse it possibly being remedial information but with the parallel walls of painted concrete and glass, wood floor, wood ceiling, etc. and the goal for good intelligbility, you would typically want to try to maximize the direct-to-reveberant energy ratio by having the energy from the speaker(s) aimed at the listeners and minimizing the energy hitting the walls and ceiling.  Getting that kind of pattern control both vertically and horizontally make require large horns and thus larger boxes.
 
If you can fly speakers then that can help in not only providing more even coverage but also in directing the sound from the speaker at the listeners rather than at the walls, and especially the rear wall.  If flying speakers is impractical or unacceptable, the either speakers with very defined patterns or a distributed approach may help.
 
And as Ivan noted, for intelligibility you generally want to minimize the number of sources of sound.  Multiple sources tend to create multiple direct and indirect signals arriving at the listeners at slightly different times, which can negatively impact intelligibility.
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Re: Bose Panarray 402 vs JBL control 28
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2012, 09:40:44 am »


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