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Author Topic: TTI NEW Spectrum analyzer PSA2702  (Read 20043 times)

Pete Erskine

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TTI NEW Spectrum analyzer PSA2702
« on: November 28, 2012, 04:15:12 PM »

See below for my impressions.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2013, 10:18:01 PM by Pete Erskine »
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Adam Robinson

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Re: TTI NEW Spectrum analyzer PSA2702
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2012, 10:10:27 PM »

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Justice C. Bigler

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Re: TTI NEW Spectrum analyzer PSA2702
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2012, 01:13:29 AM »

Finely it's here

http://www.tti-test.com/go/psa/psa-accessories.htm

mmm...sexy. Looks like it's not built around Palm OS and the price is lower than the previous model. I'd like to get one.
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Pete Erskine

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Re: TTI NEW Spectrum analyzer PSA2702
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2012, 08:45:53 AM »

is it still built around Palm OS?

It does not use a Palm.  It is a single unit.  Whether or not they used the OS, I do not know but no functions like a Palm exist on the platform.
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Pete Erskine
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Andre Vare

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Tim McCulloch

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Re: TTI NEW Spectrum analyzer PSA2702
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2012, 12:51:32 PM »

mmm...sexy. Looks like it's not built around Palm OS and the price is lower than the previous model. I'd like to get one.

Did you find one in the USA?  Newark and Saelig don't list the new models.
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Pete Erskine

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TTI NEW Spectrum analyzer PSA2702
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2012, 02:09:29 PM »

This came from from Saelig today March 25,2013- Yea!
« Last Edit: March 27, 2013, 11:56:46 PM by Pete Erskine »
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Simon Lewis

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Re: TTI NEW Spectrum analyzer PSA2702
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2012, 08:13:42 PM »

Might this unit be of interest for those who don't need an upmarket handheld analyser?

http://www.coolcomponents.co.uk/catalog/explorer-combo-p-1041.html
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Pete Erskine

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Re: TTI NEW Spectrum analyzer PSA2702 in pictures
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2013, 11:57:40 PM »

Did you find one in the USA?  Newark and Saelig don't list the new models.

I got it 2 days ago:

Total cost was $2109.00 including option U01 upgrade, A second AC adaptor, and a SMA(F) to SMA(M) adapter.

I am going to make an unfair comparison to my R&S FSH, a real upscale SA.

First impressions:
   Carrying case too big
   RF sensitivity really low even with +20 gain and no pad.
   Software only for PC
   Driver install not seamless nor automatic - requires using device manager.
   Menus slightly too deep and not in a logical arrangement.

It has logging capabilities which the R&S does not.
The R&S is remote controllable from a PC which the PSA is not.
Both of the can display and save waveforms internally and on a PC.
The PSA has a view program which shows the live view of the screen - R&S just takes still snapshots.
The PSA weighs 1 lb 5 oz and the R&S, 5 lb 14 oz (HUGE difference in my backpack)
The R&S has better controls, a keyboard and jog wheel.
The PSA has a much brighter screen (pictures are with screen at 50%).
The R&S has a preamp and a Tracking Generator, necessary for fileter tuning.  The PSA has neither.
The R&S runs a more powerful processor and has a much smoother display ar high scan speeds.
The PSA must be run at low scan speeds to have good resolution.

Here is the sales company address, talk to Missy.
Saelig Company, Inc. 71 Perinton Parkway, Fairport, NY 14450
Tel: (585) 385-1750__Fax: (585) 385-1768__E-mail: [email protected]



I have had a couple of days to learn the PSA2702 TTi Spectrum analyzer. 
 
For 1/6 the cost of the R&S it performs very well.

Here are some comparisons with the Rhode & Schwartz FSH3.

PSA2703


R&S FSH3


Looking at channel 14, 10mHz span and settins identical on each SA


This is ch18 DTV, both SA have Resolution BW at 300kHz - not much detail.


Here it is again:
R&S RBW is now 10hHz and sweep time is 200ms
PSA RBW is 15kHz and sweeptime is about 1.5 seconds
This shows the relative processing power.


Here are adjacent DTV - center is ch30 and ch 31 is on the right.
The R&S shows the distinction a little clearer.


Here is a stronger DTV ch 36


This is a peak hold on a FM station with a span of 1mHz


Here is the GIANT carring case.  I probably will not use it.
I probablywill get a fitted cordura case made instead.





« Last Edit: March 28, 2013, 10:43:05 AM by Pete Erskine »
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Brad Harris

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Re: TTI NEW Spectrum analyzer PSA2702
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2013, 11:07:56 AM »

Might this unit be of interest for those who don't need an upmarket handheld analyser?

http://www.coolcomponents.co.uk/catalog/explorer-combo-p-1041.html


Check out the other thread (http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,142654.0.html) on the RFExplorer .........
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Pete Erskine

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Re: TTI NEW Spectrum analyzer PSA2702
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2013, 12:32:25 PM »


Check out the other thread (http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,142654.0.html) on the RFExplorer .........

I have used it and while very inexpensive, it is not nearly as useful as either the PSA2702 or R&S.  If that's all you want to spend it can be coaxed into showing useful information and for the small low count RF user probably all you need.

The display is terrible and I don't want to connect to a computer to see good images.

I usually do small shows which start at 20 freqs and top out at over 600 so the power and speed of the R&S is very important.  The PSA2702 will do me fine as a backup system and portable sniffer (since it's so light weight).
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Pete Erskine
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Justice C. Bigler

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Re: TTI NEW Spectrum analyzer PSA2702
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2013, 05:10:42 PM »

Pete, are there useful functions included with the new version of the PSA? Or is it just a dedicated hardware unit to get away from the Palm unit that they were using previously?

Also, have you noticed a useful difference in the higher bands (1.92GHz and 2.4GHz) between the PSA and the R&S?

If we already have a working PSA 2701, is there much of a reason to upgrade to the new unit?
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Pete Erskine

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Re: TTI NEW Spectrum analyzer PSA2702
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2013, 08:10:27 PM »

Pete, are there useful functions included with the new version of the PSA? Or is it just a dedicated hardware unit to get away from the Palm unit that they were using previously?

Also, have you noticed a useful difference in the higher bands (1.92GHz and 2.4GHz) between the PSA and the R&S?

If we already have a working PSA 2701, is there much of a reason to upgrade to the new unit?

I have had no experience with the original TTi PSA units so cannot comment on the operational difference.   It has superior battery life, possibly user replaceable batteries (although it requires a bit of electronics skill and possibly soldering!), a higher definition screen and a much more powerful processor.

The coverage for 1.9 and 2.4 is displayed pretty much the same.  Here is my single access point on each SA.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2013, 09:45:21 AM by Pete Erskine »
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Pete Erskine

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Re: TTI NEW Spectrum analyzer PSA2702
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2013, 12:51:45 PM »

If we already have a working PSA 2701, is there much of a reason to upgrade to the new unit?

On the side of the new PSA2702 are 2 USB connectors, one Type-A for USB keys and one Mini-B to connect to your computer.  The USB key is great to download the trace files from the analyzer. 

Traces are saved as CSV files which can be loaded into IAS and shown on the channel graph.  Here are the results from a frequency scan performed last week at Trinity Church at Wall Street and Broadway in NYC.  They have been loaded into IAS software and then assembled and labeled by channels in Photoshop. 

In IAS I labeled the DTV channels in Yellow which set the DTV channels in the TV section for later frequency selection.  Although not DTV I marked 14, 15, 16 as unusable due to the shown traffic.   I had programmed the PSA2702 to do 60 MHz sections of the spectrum starting at channels 14, 24, 34 and 44 which gave better detail than doing the entire ch 14-51 in one sweep.

The scans were performed inside the church and outside.

The third pix is one scan from 14-51 so you can see the lower resolution.  The Yellow DTV stations are what is downloaded from the FCC database - you can see that the reality and the data do not agree.

Last is the chart showing the profiles programmed into the PSA2702 for this scan.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2013, 07:51:28 PM by Pete Erskine »
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Mac Kerr

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Re: TTI NEW Spectrum analyzer PSA2702
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2013, 01:09:36 PM »

Here are the results from a frequency scan performed last week at Trinity Church at Wall Street and Broadway in NYC.

I guess Howie got a hold of you.

Mac
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Jason Glass

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Re: TTI NEW Spectrum analyzer PSA2702
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2013, 01:26:00 PM »

On the side of the new PSA2702 are 2 USB connectors, one Type-A for USB keys and one Mini-B to connect to your computer.  The USB key is great to download the trace files from the analyzer. 

Traces are saved as CSV files which can be loaded into IAS and shown on the channel graph.  Here are the results from a frequency scan performed last week at Trinity Church at Wall Street and Broadway in NYC.  They have been loaded into IAS software and then assembled and labeled by channels in Photoshop. 

In IAS I labeled the DTV channels in Yellow which set the DTV channels in the TV section for later frequency selection.  Although not DTV I marked 14, 15, 16 ad unusable due to the shown traffic.   I had programmed the PSA2702 to do 60 MHz sections of the spectrum starting at channels 14, 24, 34 and 44 which gave better detail than doing the entire ch 14-51 in one sweep.

The scans were performed inside the church and outside.

The last pix is one scan from 14-51 so you can see the lower resolution.  The Yellow DTV stations are what is downloaded from the FCC database - you can see that the reality and the data do not agree.

Hi Pete,

Nice catch, on the SA picking up land mobile on 14, 15, 16!

Not to sidetrack the discussion, but have you had a chance to use a Signal Hound yet?  I use them in much the same way that you're using the TTI to export CSV files and import them in IAS and WWB6.  It certainly doesn't have the TTI's convenience for handheld operation without a computer, but the new software update, 2.18B, exports CSV's equivalent to the TTI format.  Here's an article where I cite an example in Atlanta where the reality starkly disagrees with the FCC download; http://soundforums.net/hub/1157-fundamentals-rf-coordination-live-sound-part-1-rf-environment.html.  I'm sure you'll agree that the FCC data rarely matches realtime measurements, and is becoming less reliable every day.

Pete Erskine

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Re: TTI NEW Spectrum analyzer PSA2702
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2013, 02:21:02 PM »

Not to sidetrack the discussion, but have you had a chance to use a Signal Hound yet? 

No I haven't,  I bought the PSA2702 as a backup to my R&S FSH3.  My experience with is may have relegated the 6X cost R&S to the RF bench.  I am really happy with it's performance.

Quote
Here's an article where I cite an example in Atlanta where the reality starkly disagrees with the FCC download; http://soundforums.net/hub/1157-fundamentals-rf-coordination-live-sound-part-1-rf-environment.html.  I'm sure you'll agree that the FCC data rarely matches realtime measurements, and is becoming less reliable every day.

Nice article and right on point, actually.

I only consult the FCC DB if I need a remote pre-event coordination.  It takes almost no time to scan onsite.  That is my main method of coordination.  Also, often inside a venue listed DTV for the weaker stations vanishes and the channel is usable.  It is the method I use in the Manual "RF Coordination For Roadies"

This works OK until every smartphone becomes a white space device in a year or two.  Then we basically are screwed.  For those interested in our RF spectrum fate, look at James Stoffo's webinar on the subject  HERE

In a future version of IAS, users will be able to save scans of venues for everyone to reference.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2013, 02:28:15 PM by Pete Erskine »
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bflugan82

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Re: TTI NEW Spectrum analyzer PSA2702
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2013, 10:57:05 AM »

In a future version of IAS, users will be able to save scans of venues for everyone to reference.

Speaking of which, is there a newer version of IAS available to the public than 4.8.8.0?
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Jason Glass

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Re: TTI NEW Spectrum analyzer PSA2702
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2013, 07:45:54 PM »

Speaking of which, is there a newer version of IAS available to the public than 4.8.8.0?

Funny, I just talked with Jason about that the other day.  4.8.8.0 is indeed the latest.  However, he is hard at work on 5.0!  He's sifting through 53,000 lines of code to make it happen.

FYI, he has an installer available that will add a bunch of new equipment models to 4.8.8.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2013, 07:47:45 PM by Jason Glass »
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Bob Charest

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Re: TTI NEW Spectrum analyzer PSA2702
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2013, 11:33:21 PM »

Funny, I just talked with Jason about that the other day.  4.8.8.0 is indeed the latest.  However, he is hard at work on 5.0!  He's sifting through 53,000 lines of code to make it happen.

FYI, he has an installer available that will add a bunch of new equipment models to 4.8.8.
Jason is a great example of an aware software developer, and exemplary customer service. I own two copies of hte IAS and have never regretted buying in - great product & company.

Best regards,
Bob Charest
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Patrick Müller

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Re: TTI NEW Spectrum analyzer PSA2702
« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2013, 03:33:54 PM »

i tried listening to a radio microphone. The signal was in zero span mode very bad with a lot of hiss. Is this normal?
best regards
Patrick
« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 09:38:13 AM by Patrick Müller »
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Mac Kerr

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Posting Rules
« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2013, 04:04:14 PM »

i tried listening to a radio microphone.

Please go to your profile and change the "Name" field to your real first and last name as required by the posting rules displayed in the header at the top of the section, and in the Site Rules and Suggestions in the Forum Announcements section, and on the registration page when you registered.

Mac
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Jason Glass

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Re: TTI NEW Spectrum analyzer PSA2702
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2013, 05:34:31 PM »

i tried listening to a radio microphone. The signal was in zero span mode very bad with a lot of hiss. Is this normal?
best regards
Patrick

Wireless mics usually have proprietary compander schemes, where the audio signal is heavily compressed before transmitting, often with pre-emphasis that effectively boosts the high end.  When you receive the signal with hardware that doesn't expand and de-emphasize the signal, you'll hear tinny sounding audio.

The expansion threshold and ratio must be exactly as the manufacturer prescribes for normal operation.  Each mfg. uses slightly different schemes, with variations from model to model.  Sennheiser's 3000 series receivers allow you to switch compander schemes for compatibility with their different transmitter models, and Shure's UR series RX can change compander schemes for use with 900/1000 IEM TX in point-to-point mode.

It is highly unlikely that 3rd party measurement instruments will have RX companding capability of any kind, let alone the correct prescriptions for the multitude of pro audio TX's.  The listen function is generally useful to determine if there is severe interference occurring, and little more.  There are exceptions, though.  I've found that by adjusting a Signal Hound's software HF filter settings in its listen function, you can get acceptable sounding reception for monitoring Telex BTR series and other mono TX com systems.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 05:36:03 PM by Jason Glass »
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Re: TTI NEW Spectrum analyzer PSA2702
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2013, 05:34:31 PM »


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