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Author Topic: gain issues in live set up not sure how to fix..please help  (Read 23911 times)

g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: gain issues in live set up not sure how to fix..please help
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2012, 09:39:42 pm »

Yeah Ive done that....I have all four mics on solo at 0db level showing in the led gauge.

One at a time or all at once?
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Mario Maric

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Re: gain issues in live set up not sure how to fix..please help
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2012, 12:35:30 am »

That amp seems underpowered for the speakers you said you have IMO should be ok though. Are you clipping the amp?
« Last Edit: November 19, 2012, 12:40:30 am by Mario Maric »
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Greg_Cameron

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Re: gain issues in live set up not sure how to fix..please help
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2012, 12:56:40 pm »

That amp seems underpowered for the speakers you said you have IMO should be ok though. Are you clipping the amp?

Agreed. There's no way you're going to reinforce an entire band with a relatively weak amp driving those speakers. For now, I'd recommend putting nothing but vocals through it if you want them to have a fighting chance.
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Ned Ward

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Re: gain issues in live set up not sure how to fix..please help
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2012, 01:19:11 pm »

Agreed. There's no way you're going to reinforce an entire band with a relatively weak amp driving those speakers. For now, I'd recommend putting nothing but vocals through it if you want them to have a fighting chance.


Agree. With the gear listed, guessing you're playing smaller clubs/bars - no need to mic any drums. Use the PA for vocals only.


I'd also say that the Shure PG58 wireless is suspect; if you have a wired SM58, try using that to see if the issue improves. I'm not familiar with that particular unit, but it's at the bottom of the wireless barrel and may have signal/noise issues and/or gain staging with your Mackie.


You'll get far better sound with a $99 SM58 with an XLR cable than you will unless you get into very expensive wireless mics.


Is there a specific reason why you have or need wireless?
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Greg_Cameron

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Re: gain issues in live set up not sure how to fix..please help
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2012, 01:26:16 pm »

also been considering getting a powered amp/suitcase style mixer which I think would remove some of our equipment to a mixer with a handle and speakers...would be less to carry but since we have this it would be nice to get it working right

Going to a powered mixer is not a path to success unless you're a lounge act. None of those types of devices have serious power behind them by today's standards. If you're a light weight lounge act or soloist, they work fine. But not for a rock band.
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Jeff Young

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Re: gain issues in live set up not sure how to fix..please help
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2012, 11:08:49 pm »

Going to a powered mixer is not a path to success unless you're a lounge act. None of those types of devices have serious power behind them by today's standards. If you're a light weight lounge act or soloist, they work fine. But not for a rock band.

Thanx all for the replies...after a bit of research I'm coming to the conclusion that the Shure Wireless might be under powered and we are feeding back by having to turn it up too much, seems compression might help that a bit but I dont think it would be a real fix....Seen a few posts saying that an Audix OM7 would be more to our needs but if a wired Shure 58 would fix the problem that's even better. The singer went wireless cause he wanted to be able to move around. But that might have to wait. And I have had my concerns about the power of the amp, after 3 mics on the drums and one for backup vocal.
I have 0'd out each mic several times with the amp at lowest setting, adjusted gain and cut some EQ here and there till he sounds good but once we turn the amp up less than halfway its all feedback. Just read today that running a gate on the drum mics might solve that which I'm sure I could use the Alesis for. Really trying to keep our equipment from growing to ridiculous proportions here. Gonna look into seeing if theres a place I cant rent a few mics to take and run through our set up and see the difference.

And yes if we turn the amp up a little past halfway it will clip when all mics are running...so in the basement I have been cutting out the drums, and just running the two vocal mics...still gotta get it fixed for live application....at the moment we are kinda stuck using an antique Kustom 200watt Pa head with the matching slim towers.
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george welder

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Re: gain issues in live set up not sure how to fix..please help
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2012, 01:07:37 am »

Thanx all for the replies...after a bit of research I'm coming to the conclusion that the Shure Wireless might be under powered and we are feeding back by having to turn it up too much, seems compression might help that a bit but I dont think it would be a real fix....Seen a few posts saying that an Audix OM7 would be more to our needs but if a wired Shure 58 would fix the problem that's even better. The singer went wireless cause he wanted to be able to move around. But that might have to wait. And I have had my concerns about the power of the amp, after 3 mics on the drums and one for backup vocal.

I have 0'd out each mic several times with the amp at lowest setting, adjusted gain and cut some EQ here and there till he sounds good but once we turn the amp up less than halfway its all feedback. Just read today that running a gate on the drum mics might solve that which I'm sure I could use the Alesis for. Really trying to keep our equipment from growing to ridiculous proportions here. Gonna look into seeing if theres a place I cant rent a few mics to take and run through our set up and see the difference.

And yes if we turn the amp up a little past halfway it will clip when all mics are running...so in the basement I have been cutting out the drums, and just running the two vocal mics...still gotta get it fixed for live application....at the moment we are kinda stuck using an antique Kustom 200watt Pa head with the matching slim towers.

The "volume" controls on the power amp are not volume controls. They are for attenuating input signal. example, "all the way up" or clockwise should be 0db, meaning output from your mixer should be 0db or lower. If your power amp is clipping when you turn those "volume" knobs half way up then the output from your mixer is way too hot. Start this way, pull all the individual channel faders down, turn the power amp knobs all the way up, hit solo on vocal channel, set the preamp level to about 0 or a bit less. With the master fader set to 0 bring the vocal channel up. Use the master fader and channel faders as your "volume" control and leave the power amp all the way up.

I don't remember which ones but some of the Mackie boards had an additional output level pot located by the power switch. I would check for that and if it has one be sure to set it to 0.
Think of it this way, 0 out of the board can be 0 into the amps. +3 out of the board needs to be -3 into the amps. +6 out of the board and you will need to attenuate or "turn down" your power to -6.

Lastly a kick drum through a couple of 15's and a horn isn't going to sound like the kick that you heard at the enormough-dome. It's only gonna do so much and then to get the vox on top of that is asking a lot of any single box a side. Respect the limits of the gear and work with what you got. It's been recommended often for good reason, the Yamaha sound reinforcement handbook is a great guide to get it goin.

Good luck, have fun, and don't let out the magic smoke. But if you must be sure let it all out.
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Ned Ward

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gain issues in live set up not sure how to fix..please help
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2012, 02:12:06 am »

Again at this level, do not put the drums through the PA. Start with vocals only and get those right first. You don't need drums in the PA and you are just raising the level that the vocal mics need to be louder than, causing feedback.

Can you explain why you think you need 3 drum mics?

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Jeff Young

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Re: gain issues in live set up not sure how to fix..please help
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2012, 06:52:46 pm »

Again at this level, do not put the drums through the PA. Start with vocals only and get those right first. You don't need drums in the PA and you are just raising the level that the vocal mics need to be louder than, causing feedback.

Can you explain why you think you need 3 drum mics?

I personally dont want the drums ran thru the pa...any recording Ive gotten off my Zoom with the drums ran thru the pa comes out with entirely too much snare and cymbals....but tell a drummer that cant hear the rest of the band to begin with that he doesn't need to be louder....Maybe you've had better luck with that than I have. Personally would be happier if he would take them somewhere and have a professional tune them but hes been playing forever so he knows whats right...right! Even though his bass drum has no bass unless ran through a mic with high gain and ridiculous EQ settings. I discussed just this issue with the singer this morning and we will be looking possibly into a dedicated Pa system entirely for him, leaving the drummer out of the amp'd loop entirely. He got better results simply mic'ng off his kick drum to a bass amp anyways and we have several of those.
Im running a 200 watt bass head on a 4x10 and 1x15 but usually only use the 4x10 .......the guitarists are both running peaveys 200 watt and 400 watt combos.....no matter where we have been the bass and guitars have been plenty capable of  filling the space the drums are fine but he insists on running his drums mic'd off which has been nothing but a headache.
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Jeff Young

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Re: gain issues in live set up not sure how to fix..please help
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2012, 06:59:34 pm »

The "volume" controls on the power amp are not volume controls. They are for attenuating input signal. example, "all the way up" or clockwise should be 0db, meaning output from your mixer should be 0db or lower. If your power amp is clipping when you turn those "volume" knobs half way up then the output from your mixer is way too hot. Start this way, pull all the individual channel faders down, turn the power amp knobs all the way up, hit solo on vocal channel, set the preamp level to about 0 or a bit less. With the master fader set to 0 bring the vocal channel up. Use the master fader and channel faders as your "volume" control and leave the power amp all the way up.

I don't remember which ones but some of the Mackie boards had an additional output level pot located by the power switch. I would check for that and if it has one be sure to set it to 0.
Think of it this way, 0 out of the board can be 0 into the amps. +3 out of the board needs to be -3 into the amps. +6 out of the board and you will need to attenuate or "turn down" your power to -6.

Lastly a kick drum through a couple of 15's and a horn isn't going to sound like the kick that you heard at the enormough-dome. It's only gonna do so much and then to get the vox on top of that is asking a lot of any single box a side. Respect the limits of the gear and work with what you got. It's been recommended often for good reason, the Yamaha sound reinforcement handbook is a great guide to get it goin.

Good luck, have fun, and don't let out the magic smoke. But if you must be sure let it all out.


will be printing this off and testing out this Friday or Saturday when we get together again.  Thanks for being thorough. This is wholly different than I have been instructed before. Damn YouTube! And after reading this I checked the manual for the amp and realize what your saying.....will be trying this for sure
« Last Edit: November 20, 2012, 07:04:17 pm by Jeff Young »
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Re: gain issues in live set up not sure how to fix..please help
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2012, 06:59:34 pm »


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