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Author Topic: Entry level book for installed speaker design considerations  (Read 3677 times)

Mark McFarlane

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Entry level book for installed speaker design considerations
« on: November 19, 2012, 09:30:18 AM »

I have a friend who is helping a mosque diagnose problems with their sound system for intelligibility (basically a concrete room)  with a rug on the floor and wants to read a book on speaker and system installs.  Low budget.

Any decent introductory books/references for spoken word installs?
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Mark McFarlane

Ivan Beaver

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Re: Entry level book for installed speaker design considerations
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2012, 12:51:21 PM »

I have a friend who is helping a mosque diagnose problems with their sound system for intelligibility (basically a concrete room)  with a rug on the floor and wants to read a book on speaker and system installs.  Low budget.

Any decent introductory books/references for spoken word installs?
The same rules apply.  Keep the energy on the people and off of the walls, ceiling etc.

The big differences are the wider freq response and louder levels needed for music.

You will find that people who deal with spoken word are often a bit more technical than the typical "music" guy.

THe biggest problem often do deal with in a "live" room-is what they will allow you to do-vs what you would like to do.

But what you are asking for could be any number of different things-hard to say without knowing a lat more.

Is it the room? or the sound system? or how it is implemented? or operated? or all of the above.  Any one could throw the whole thing "out of whack" and trying to fix the wrong thing is not going to do any good.  You have to figure out the real problem FIRST.
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Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

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Mark McFarlane

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Re: Entry level book for installed speaker design considerations
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2012, 02:57:47 PM »

The same rules apply.  Keep the energy on the people and off of the walls, ceiling etc.

The big differences are the wider freq response and louder levels needed for music.

You will find that people who deal with spoken word are often a bit more technical than the typical "music" guy.

THe biggest problem often do deal with in a "live" room-is what they will allow you to do-vs what you would like to do.

But what you are asking for could be any number of different things-hard to say without knowing a lat more.

Is it the room? or the sound system? or how it is implemented? or operated? or all of the above.  Any one could throw the whole thing "out of whack" and trying to fix the wrong thing is not going to do any good.  You have to figure out the real problem FIRST.

Thanks Ivan.  The fundamental problem is intelligibility, but it also appears to be somewhat determined by who is speaking so it's not entirely a system problem, some of it will be mic technique or mic selection.

I'm not trying to solve the room problem with this thread, I am just trying to find an introductory book for my friend.  I've already overwhelmed him with questions and things to consider. In his next visit he will investigate some of my questions.

My friend wants a book to read at his own pace so I'm trying to find him one.  I want to support his interest to learn.  Then he can come back to me with specific questions, its kind of overwhelming for a newbie to just jump into room acoustics and system design...

I'll probably volunteer to visit the room but it may not be possible.

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Mark McFarlane

Tom Young

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Re: Entry level book for installed speaker design considerations
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2012, 03:40:12 PM »


Thanks Ivan.  The fundamental problem is intelligibility, but it also appears to be somewhat determined by who is speaking so it's not entirely a system problem, some of it will be mic technique or mic selection.

I'm not trying to solve the room problem with this thread, I am just trying to find an introductory book for my friend.  I've already overwhelmed him with questions and things to consider. In his next visit he will investigate some of my questions.

My friend wants a book to read at his own pace so I'm trying to find him one.  I want to support his interest to learn.  Then he can come back to me with specific questions, its kind of overwhelming for a newbie to just jump into room acoustics and system design...

I'll probably volunteer to visit the room but it may not be possible.

Mark-

I don't think a simple, layperson/novice book on loudspeaker system design exists.

One can pick up Sound System Engineering (Davis & Davis) used for a decent price on Amazon. Although this is an advanced/technical text and is dated (so it does not have much on line arrays/column speakers, digitally steered systems, etc), it may be the only one that your friend might benefit from reading. There is a newer edition by Davis & Patronis which is more up to date and probably also available used.

As Ivan implied and I think you know, this is as much an architectural/acoustic design issue as it will be electroacoustics.

HTH
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Tom Young
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Andre Vare

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Re: Entry level book for installed speaker design considerations
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2012, 01:50:41 PM »


Thanks Ivan.  The fundamental problem is intelligibility, but it also appears to be somewhat determined by who is speaking so it's not entirely a system problem, some of it will be mic technique or mic selection.

I'm not trying to solve the room problem with this thread, I am just trying to find an introductory book for my friend.  I've already overwhelmed him with questions and things to consider. In his next visit he will investigate some of my questions.

My friend wants a book to read at his own pace so I'm trying to find him one.  I want to support his interest to learn.  Then he can come back to me with specific questions, its kind of overwhelming for a newbie to just jump into room acoustics and system design...

I'll probably volunteer to visit the room but it may not be possible.
As otheres have written, I know of no "introductory" texts on the subject.  People who are interested, are almost exclusively technical professionals.  The texts are written for technical people.  Within that group of texts, one the best I know of is free!  It is the JBL Professional Sound System Design Manual.  Here are links to the 2 parts.

http://www.jblpro.com/BackOffice/ProductAttachments/pssdm_1.pdf
http://www.jblpro.com/BackOffice/ProductAttachments/pssdm_2.pdf

Andre
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Mark McFarlane

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Re: Entry level book for installed speaker design considerations
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2012, 04:54:41 AM »

Thanks Tom and Andre.  The JBL books look reasonable, albeit a bit technical. We'll see if my friend suffers through the chapters on speaker directivity and room acoustics.
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Mark McFarlane

Ivan Beaver

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Re: Entry level book for installed speaker design considerations
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2012, 09:52:02 AM »

.  The JBL books look reasonable, albeit a bit technical. .
The thing is-sound IS technical-especially when you start talking about doing it RIGHT and the "design considerations (as stated in the title of the thread).

If you don't understand the basics-and what it takes to overcome BASIC issues (that are most of the problems in sound systems-just look at the number of threads on here about them).

Maybe there is a "brain surgery for dummies book also".  You can only dumb it down so far.

Just look at comb filtering- until you understand the basic math behind it-and the resultant response-then it is just "interference".  Understanding what CAUSES the interference and what it sounds like-that isw takingit a step further.

I bet most of the people who "throw out" the term combfiltering-really don't understand it-or would recognize it-MUCH LESS really understand how to deal with or "fix" it.

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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Brad Weber

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Re: Entry level book for installed speaker design considerations
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2012, 11:30:40 AM »

I have a friend who is helping a mosque diagnose problems with their sound system for intelligibility (basically a concrete room)  with a rug on the floor and wants to read a book on speaker and system installs.  Low budget.

Any decent introductory books/references for spoken word installs?
I've seen one book try to distill system design and installation down to simple terms that to the uninitiated may seem very useful and beneficial, unfortunately experienced audio system design and construction professionals find what is presented to be a rather error filled and misinformed perspective presented by someone who obviously has very limited expertise and experience on the topic.  The author's defense is that the book was intended for non-technical readers, but that does not seem to justify presenting inaccurate or misleading information.
 
That is the issue I've seen with that many resources that try to address such a potentially technical and complex topic in simple terms, they often do so by using flawed analogies or oversimplification and can end up hurting as much as helping.
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Re: Entry level book for installed speaker design considerations
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2012, 11:30:40 AM »


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