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Author Topic: Band makes judgement through a portable recorder.  (Read 21067 times)

Timothy J. Trace

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Re: Band makes judgement through a portable recorder.
« Reply #40 on: November 05, 2012, 02:47:50 AM »

Isn't the correct tool for judging a bar gig the alcohol sales total?
Spot-on.

.
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Gordon Brinton

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Re: Band makes judgement through a portable recorder.
« Reply #41 on: November 05, 2012, 05:28:08 AM »

...Sheesh.  Isn't the correct tool for judging a bar gig the alcohol sales total?

Perhaps, but us sound guys don't have access to that information other than counting heads.

If it sounds bad (as a result of his instructions) and people leave, will it be my fault or the drummer's fault? I am sure he will blame it on me, if not to my face then behind my back.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2012, 05:32:08 AM by Gordon Brinton »
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Brad Weber

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Re: Band makes judgement through a portable recorder.
« Reply #42 on: November 05, 2012, 09:51:16 AM »

It sound like this is a situation where the band, or at least their representative, believes that the person running the sound has been hired to help deliver the result that they define and while they could defer to you or get your input, as the Client paying for the services they have the right to instead dictate the goals.  However, how you then achieve the goals established should be up to you.
 
If you disagree with the goals they've define then I believe that you can support them anyways, walk away or express your concerns and then decide based on their response.  Even if done with the best intents, intentionally undermining them or saying one thing and doing another seems less than professional.
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Jamie Chappa

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Re: Band makes judgement through a portable recorder.
« Reply #43 on: November 05, 2012, 10:55:10 AM »

What a bad situation. Here is another take on it. How will he know you made changes? Meaning does he hover over you while you make the suggested changes. It seems to me he finds fault in every recording. So changes made or not will it make a difference. it seems like he always makes a weekly change.  I agree this is a trust issue.
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Roch Lafleur

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Re: Band makes judgement through a portable recorder.
« Reply #44 on: November 05, 2012, 11:14:13 AM »

I  have never done this before, and might be speaking out of my behind here, but wouldn't this be a perfect time for a virtual soundcheck? If this drummer/band leader wants to hear and "fix" what goes on in the room, why not record the band playing a song, then replay it for him on the same p.a., in the same room? The soundman could even let him set the levels where he thinks they should be. This way, everyone would know what it is he likes and expects to hear. It might be that he actually does like the vocals and guitars to be buried. Then again, he might like what the soundman is doing and realize that his recording device does not provide a true image of what actually happens live.

I realize that would require quite a bit of work on the soundman's part to set up the recording. Again, I've never recorded a show or seen a virtual soundcheck, but from what I've read, most digital desk promo lists it as a selling point.

Just a thought.
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Mac Kerr

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« Reply #45 on: November 05, 2012, 11:45:25 AM »

I  have never done this before, and might be speaking out of my behind here, but wouldn't this be a perfect time for a virtual soundcheck? If this drummer/band leader wants to hear and "fix" what goes on in the room, why not record the band playing a song, then replay it for him on the same p.a., in the same room? The soundman could even let him set the levels where he thinks they should be. This way, everyone would know what it is he likes and expects to hear. It might be that he actually does like the vocals and guitars to be buried. Then again, he might like what the soundman is doing and realize that his recording device does not provide a true image of what actually happens live.

I realize that would require quite a bit of work on the soundman's part to set up the recording. Again, I've never recorded a show or seen a virtual soundcheck, but from what I've read, most digital desk promo lists it as a selling point.

Just a thought.

Virtual Soundcheck only works in a situation where the PA is the primary sound source for every instrument. In the case of small venues this is rarely if ever the case. The live sound of the guitars, bass, and drums is often the primary source so they will be very weak in the mix, and very weak in the VS playback. If you make a real full recording of the band, it still doesn't represent what will be happening in the live show where once again the live sound of some of the instruments will predominate.

Mac
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Randall Hyde

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Re: Band makes judgement through a portable recorder.
« Reply #46 on: November 05, 2012, 06:57:36 PM »

I hate it when ANYONE tells me to turn this or that up or down. All of the bands I work with require adjustments on every song, and during many songs. I take criticism and add it to my criteria by which I mix, but mixing most bands is not a set and forget proposition. I've had bands use hand held digital recorders in the room and get good results. The problem may be who is deciding if the recordings sound good or not.

Please come to work for me :)
I can't stand "set it and forget it" sound engineers.

To the OP: mike placement is critical. I'd bet that the guy begging for more bass is a result of the mic winding up in a NULL. I'm usually having the opposite problem, telling my sound engineer to turn the bass (guitar and drums) down as it completely swamps everything else. I'm all for having the kick drum cave people's chests in (I spent a lot of money on those subs, I want people to hear them!), but not at the expense of overwhelming everything else.

FWIW, I purchased a DAW that works with my digital setup (SAC + SAW) figuring I could record the band during sound check, drag their butts out to FOH and let them hear themselves. If I'd thought about it for more than 10 minutes before purchasing the DAW, I could have saved myself $600. Alas, I can't playback the backline at the same levels when the amps aren't being used, so it was a useless exercise. Then, of course, there's the issue that the bands seem to want to get off the stage (from sound check) as quickly as possible and go do something else. That really blows me away (that they aren't willing to put in the effort to get the sound as good as possible). I've, literally, had a lead singer show up, speak into the microphone, adjust his level to his liking (sans any other audio source) and walk off the stage. Of course, when the band starts playing he's constantly walking over to monitor world to get adjustments made. No amount of asking him to play a full song during sound check worked. Oh well; that's why we get paid the small bucks.
Cheers,
Randy Hyde
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andy craig

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Re: Band makes judgement through a portable recorder.
« Reply #47 on: November 17, 2012, 04:06:20 AM »

Maybe you could point out to the drummer that when he listens to the mix tape he needs to be listening at the same SPL as the gig.
Show him some Fletcher Muson curves and explain how his low listening level decisions are incorrect.
Maybe that will get him off your back.
Andy.
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Doug Maye

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Re: Band makes judgement through a portable recorder.
« Reply #48 on: November 18, 2012, 10:50:13 AM »

Suggest to him that you record from the board and not with the mics in the unit. I've gotten some suprisingly good recordings with a Zoom H2N that way.  If he can't understand the difference then walk away.
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Patrick Tracy

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Re: Band makes judgement through a portable recorder.
« Reply #49 on: November 18, 2012, 08:29:23 PM »

Suggest to him that you record from the board and not with the mics in the unit. I've gotten some suprisingly good recordings with a Zoom H2N that way.  If he can't understand the difference then walk away.

In big venue maybe, but in anything smaller the recording will be distorted by stage volume.

I think it's already been established that this drummer can't or won't understand the problem with his rationale. This isn't a mixing job, it's a scapegoat job.

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Band makes judgement through a portable recorder.
« Reply #49 on: November 18, 2012, 08:29:23 PM »


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