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[Peter Morris]

I have been looking to add another digital desk to our hire inventory, something that has more rider acceptance than our current iLive’s (not the iLiveT).  It will be used with a high quality medium size, 18 boxes (+subs) line array.

In Australia the most common rider spec is currently for a Profile on FOH and a PM5D for monitors.

A new Profile is too expensive for me at moment, and I worry that they are getting a bit old and starting to fall out of favour a little. Not sure about getting a used Profile or a new SC48 for the same reason.

What’s interesting when you start to compare the iLive to other desks; is how good the iLive is on every account except one – rider acceptance.

…anyway I’m leaning towards a Midas Pro 2.  They are a bit too new to have rider status yet but I expect they will soon become quite acceptable, especially with the show files being compatible with its big brothers…. the level at which the Pro 2 competes, it seems to offer the best rider acceptance potential, especially considering the price, features and sound quality … despite a few little issues I have. 

I’m interested in what others expect to happen with rider acceptance at this level over the next few years. What desk(s) would you consider? (Cross hiring is not an option and I need a digital multicore)

FWIW I have shown a quick comparison below -- not sure how accurate it is, but please adjust as necessary.
 
iLive
Channels – 128
EFX – 8
GEQs- 32
DCA - 16
Aux sends – 32 max
iPad + off line editor
-Very good sound quality
-Most number of channels/GEQs/AUX etc.
- can operate with no surface: i.e. computer/ iPad and rack
-Options
   M-waves plug-ins
   Ethersound
   Madi
   Dante
   AES-EBU


Pro 2
Channels - 56
EFX – 6
GEQs – 28 max
VCA – 8
Aux sends – 32max out.
Groups
Matrix
GEQs – 28 max
iPad + off line editor
- Cannot have aux sends pre gate, comp & /or EQ
- Excellent sound quality - but no AES-EBU on standard DL251 rack
- Pop groups and pop VCAs… I love these.
- Lots of options with modular rack system


SD9
Channels – 48 (96 stereo)
Aux sends 16 (16 stereo)
EFX – 8
GEQs - 24
Groups?
Matrix ?
- Off line editor – no ipad app.
- Excellent sound quality


SC 48
Channels – 48
EFX
GEQs -24
VCA
Aux sends – 16 (expandable to 32)
Matrix - 8
-Good sound quality

Venue Profile
Channels – 48 expandable to 96 with 16 out
EFX - ?
GEQs -24
VCA - ?
Aux sends –16?
Groups ?
Matrix ?
GEQs -24
-Good sound quality
-Plugins


CL5
Channels – 72 + 8 stereo
EFX – 8
GEQs -24
DCA - 16
Aux sends – 24
Matrix - 8
-iPad + off line editor
-Very good sound quality
- Drives like an M7 with layers and a digital multicore..

PM5D
Channels – 48 + 8 stereo
EFX - 8
GEQs -24
VCA - 8
Aux sends –24
Groups?
Matrix - 8
-Good sound quality
-The layout of the Aux sends is good for monitor applications

Soundcraft Vi Si ??

[Thomas Lamb]

It all comes back to which has the best return on investment. The I live is a good console and if its going to be you using it always then it's no issue. It has gained some rider acceptance but its going to be a while until it widely accepted. The profile is a widely accepted console and if you go off the pm5d as an example of how long that will last I would say it still has another good 10 years left. So I wouldn't worry about that. SC48 has actually become one of my favorite desks. However, while I will take it any day since it doesn't have dedicated dynamics and EQ control on the surface I doubt that it will become more rider acceptable yet most reasonable guys if they showed up and that's what you had while they would complain a little they would get over it because the show file loads and the software is the same. CL5 will be rider acceptable within a year without question because its the newest flavor of YAMAHA. The soundcraft is a good choice but still not as rider friendly. So I would go profile or Yamaha I think both will offer good ROI and last many years.

[Sam Feine]

Having worked with both the Venue Profile and the 5d I would recommend the profile any day. It is widely accepted on riders and is a pretty proven player. That said the new CL series from Yamaha look pretty good and if their predecessors are anything to go by, they will soon gain wide rider acceptability. While the Pro 2 may be a great desk, I just don't see it gaining the rider acceptability that the other options have. I feel like for you, a move to it would be almost sideways as opposed to up in terms of rider acceptability. Right now you are probably best going either the Avid or Yamaha route simply for acceptability alone. Thats not to say that the other desks are not incredible boards, but that from everything that I've seen they are a gamble as far as future acceptability goes and right now the market in my part of the world anyway is almost exclusively Avid and Yamaha based in the price range that your going for.

[Aaron Talley]

Get an Avid desk.

I would be very surprised if someone would turn a Profile or an SC48 depending on the channel count. 

A 5D is also almost always acceptable.

I have only ever run into one band that is very resistant to taking Profile. They needed 2 Pro 9 consoles, and they are from your neck of the woods.

Talley

[Peter Morris]

Thanks guys, I agree at the moment it’s a Profile, the problem is getting a ROI on a desk that was released in 2005. AVID (consumer’s division – I think) also lost $39m last quarter…. So I’m not sure about the Profile/AVID as a long term investment…. Don’t know?

I was expecting the CL5 to be the go, I heard it was going to be PM 5D performance at an M7 price (which it is) but so far, everyone seems to less than impressed for some reason. I don’t think it looks very impressive, an M7 with less faders (layers) but other than that … I guess the question is; will the initial lack of enthusiasm prevent the CL gaining traction?

The Midas is interesting; I can get a Pro 2 and a Pro 1 for the price of a CL5.  The most recent purchases in my part of the world (as far as I know) seem to be favouring Midas for this reason  …. and it sounds better than a Profile. 

The question for Midas is; has Uli done enough to put Midas on the rider list? If he is able to get Pro 6’s and 9’s on the list,  I think the Pro 2 will also get some acceptance.

I also wounder what will happen in 5 years time when all the young guys who are presently doing their time on X32’s, LS9’s and GLD’s will want when they graduate to the next level.

[Mark McFarlane]

Thanks guys, I agree at the moment it’s a Profile, the problem is getting a ROI on a desk that was released in 2005. AVID (consumer’s division – I think) also lost $39m last quarter…. So I’m not sure about the Profile/AVID as a long term investment…. Don’t know?

Avid sold off some of their consumer brands over ~ the past year, the loss my be a write down (I'm not sure, just speculation).

[Peter Morris]

Avid sold off some of their consumer brands over ~ the past year, the loss my be a write down (I'm not sure, just speculation).

It will be intersting to see the 3rd quarter results ...

this maybe an interesting thread  http://soundforums.net/varsity/5524-new-avid-desk.html

[Peter Morris]

FWIW - and I’m not sure how much -  Here is a list of tours & consoles sourced mostly from Mix online from October 2012 to the start of 2011 (so it’s biased towards the US market)

Kenny Chesney and Tim McGraw – Pro9
Mutemath – Avid
Chickenfoot -PM5D
Avenged Sevenfold –Pro6
Derek Trucks and Susan Tedeschi– Digico D5
Bon Iver–Digico SD10
Dolly Parton – Pro 9
Queens Jublie concert – XL8 Pro 9,6,2
Mastodon – PM5D
Cheap Trick Tour - Midas H3K
Metallica - XL8
Ben Harper and the Relentless7 - Profile
Colbie Caillat– PM5D
Adele – iLive
Phish Tour – Midas XL8
Sir Paul McCartney - Profile
Kid Rock – Profile
Lady Gaga – Profile
Ray LaMontagne - Profile
Bareilles –Pro 9 (Profile monitors)
Blink 182 – Pro 6
Linkin Park – D show
Kings of Leon – XL8
Bruno Mars and Janelle Monae –SD8 (PM5D monitors)
Peter Gabriel –SD7
Deep Purple – Soundcraft  Vi1
Lady Antebellum -Profile
Jeff Beck and Imelda May Band –Profile (Pro 6 monitors)
Michael Buble – SD7
Maroon 5 – SD7
Usher –XL8

[mark lonow]

hats off to midas and behringer for having the flavor of the year 2012!!!
i was thinking id see a bigger increase in digico or soundcrafts this year but i was rong

 midas proz being  maby  3rd  most used desk this year(buy tourin acts)
digico has strong presence with bands that carry  ... maby still more then midas  but its close this year
at the very least there theres a lot more midas proz out there compared to recent years

like  allen and heath, everyone says good things about the soundcraft vi....... but i dont see dem much

lot of the midas i see r from old school early adoptors  that drink the purple drink
few new guys where trying them out ... the question will they stick with it on next years run?

i just dont get the 3 eq nobz on the midas(slow for throw and go)
buy now we should have  14-17 dedicated nobz with encoders around them  (variabile hi and low pass + 4-5 bandz of eq)

1 avid venue  ..is way out there in frount in numbers

close race for these postions
2 digico
3 midas pro
4 yamaha


5 sound craft vi /vista is a rare one

sell the i live and buy a pair of new desks or 1 profile
or dig in with a gdl and ride it out  a few seasons
 

[Jim McKeveny]

Why do I always feel like a contrarian?...:

Across my decades of SR involvement, the only purchase that I ever saw "made the phone ring" was the original V-DOSC.

Choose a console based on your best forecast of useability, longevity, manufacturer support, residual value, etc.

Whenever I see references made to "ROI" I take off my glasses and rub my eyes. SR is at its core an artisanal endeavor. If ROI is a primary compelling consideration, you/we are all in the wrong business.

[ProSoundWeb Community]