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[Jay Barracato]

Anything Ivan chooses to write will be worth reading.

I am pretty comfortable with my own knowledge base, skillset, and experience but I still read EVERY of Ivan's posts on three different forums.

[Ian Murphy]

Good for you.  It takes a solid person to 'fess up when they've been hasty.  You are to be commended for taking any lumps.

I wouldn't say "spend more money".  I will stick by my assertion that spending any money on Seismic brand speakers is pretty much a waste.  You could get very good "industry standard" subs used for the price of a new Seismic box. 

I hope you stick around.  This is a great place to learn and ask questions.  It may take some getting used to, but it's worth it.

I wish you success in your quest.

Alright, and thanks to your for not trying to rub it in my face.  I think the seismic audio brand probably is too good to be true.  It seems like if their 18" subwoofer can really handle 1000watts RMS, whatever that means, its got to at least have some power, just I'm sure, horrendous sound.  The thing is that my crowd at the current time is generally drunk college students, who's expectations aren't very high. 

So what exactly can I get for $300-350?  I have a crown XLS402 amplifier I can use in bridge mode for a sub, but for that much money I don't think I can realistically get anything that can use up all '900watts continuous'.  Since the main problem with my last gig was lack of power for the venue, I was trying to get relatively high output so I won't be embarrassed if I ever play at that venue again.

So what would you say are industry standard subs?  I did hear what I thought was a JBL JRX118 a couple weeks ago and I thought that had some pretty amazing sound.  I think I can get one just slightly out of my budget used... would that be the best direction to go in my situation? 

Thanks for tolerating these long posts and that mess earlier,
Ian

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

Alright, and thanks to your for not trying to rub it in my face.  I think the seismic audio brand probably is too good to be true.  It seems like if their 18" subwoofer can really handle 1000watts RMS, whatever that means, its got to at least have some power, just I'm sure, horrendous sound.  The thing is that my crowd is generally drunk college students, who's expectations aren't very high. 

So what exactly can I get for $300-350?  I have a crown XLS402 amplifier I can use in bridge mode for a sub, but for that much money I don't think I can realistically get anything that can use up all '900watts continuous'.  Since the main problem with my last gig was lack of power for the venue, I was trying to get relatively high output so I won't be embarrassed if I ever play at that venue again.

So what would you say are industry standard subs?  I did hear what I thought was a JBL JRX118 a couple weeks ago and I thought that had some pretty amazing sound.  I think I can get one just slightly out of my budget used... would that be the best direction to go? 

Thanks,
Ian

The JRX line is JBL's "entry level" gear and I believe the prevailing opinion is to go at least one notch higher to the MRX if JBL is your brand.  Prices tend to vary according to the locality, your diligence in shopping and just pure luck, so it's hard to say on a Forum what you might expect to pay other than general speculation.  If I were you I'd focus on trying to get some real-time experience with a number of different brands/models before spending money. 

How do you do this? 

A lot of listening at gigs/clubs/parties, some light schmoozing with the sound folk and time spent trying to come to an understanding of what specs mean in the real world......and what they DO NOT mean.  If you're patient and ask your questions here, you'll get a lot of solid information as well as a slew of opinions (some valid, some not so much) from actual users.  You've shown a willingness to participate in a dialogue by coming back after your initial posts, so I think folks will be willing to help you.

Welcome to the Forums.

[Ian Murphy]

Ok thanks Dick.  So maybe I will need to throw down a little more cash than I thought... The MRX518s is 4 ohm, so I would have to run it in unbridged mode which my amp states it can output "450watts continuous".  I'm not sure how that compares to JBL's 500watt continuous power rating but I'm thinking the JBL might be underpowered with that configuration.

[Ivan Beaver]

No. 0dB is not an audio level, it is a ratio between 2 numbers. Without a reference it has no meaning. If you said 0dBm that would be a power of 1 milliwatt. If you said 0dBu that would be a voltage of .775V. If you said 0dBv that would be a voltage of 1V. If you said 0dBfs that would be the maximum output of a particular piece of digital gear, and could equate to anything from +8dBu - +24dBu.

RMS is a voltage measurement. That value is often used in the calculation of so called "RMS Power", but the power is not RMS, the voltage measurement used to define it was.

Lastly, a good way to lose any credibility in these forums is to start a discussion about car audio. It has nothing to do with pro audio, no matter what the people involved in it think.

There have been literally hundreds of discussions on what subwoofers have good value, or very high output, or really suck, and some searching in the forums will let you read hundreds if not thousands of opinions.

Mac

And to add to what Mac said-for every amp model that has a 0dBu or if you choose dBV (remember that they are DIFFERENT voltage levels-so which one is it?) that is the full output drive level-there are dozens of other amps that use a DIFFERENT drive level to reach full output.  Some lower-but many higher-some quite a bit higher.

There are all kinds of different ways to rate "wattage" of a loudspeaker.  The exact same model could have all kinds of different ratings-based on how the test was performed-for how long-under what stimuli etc.

Car gear is notorious for having overinflated specs.  If pro gear was rated the same way-it would have much higher ratings.

Things like SPL contests are just pretty stupid.  OK you can produce a certain SPL-WHOOPEEEE. For how long?  Over what freq range?  At what distortion?

If you want and easy way to get a very high SPL in a car (highly modified-just like those competitions cars) try this.  Seal up the car real tight.  No install a moving roof via pistons that simply compresses the internal volume of the vehicle.  Make sure that it travels on a sealed track so no air can get behind it.

No move it up and down (in and out or whatever).  The compression of the air inside the vehicle will produce a very high SPL  (with the key on PRESSURE) reading.  Not anything you want to listen to-but the "measurement" will be high.

I just bought a new car (Chrysler 300) with a upgraded factory sound system-the Beats audio system (not my choice-it came with the car).  It is supposed to be a very good system.  I rank it as maybe "OK".  Nothing special-in fact it is a bit irritating and "lacking" to me.  I have yet to measure it-but want to find the time to.  It may be fine for some types of music- that I REFUSE to listen to (just look at the background of the name to get an idea)-but my computer speakers sound WAAYYY better-get way louder-more accurate and so forth.

Now granted they are not your normal "computer" speakers-just some highly modified 42 yr old speakers.

[Ian Murphy]

Ok thanks, Ivan.  I do agree with you there, Beats audio is way overpriced IMO.  I've listened to several of the headphones and think they sound much worse than my $200 Seinheiser heaphones for about half the price.  Yet kids are walking around with these $400 headphones thinking they are now pro audio experts.  Supports my thought that you don't always need to spend more money to get better quality. 

I also think the car audio competitions are dumb as well, they seem to me just for insecure men to have something to show off.  But lets stay off the topic...

[Dave Rickard]

Don't overlook powered subs. Processing included.

[Ian Murphy]

Don't overlook powered subs. Processing included.

That's true, although I already have the amp, so that would probably mean I would have to also sell my amp and an extra $100+ on the price. If I find a good deal there's no problem with going for it, but again, the used audio market is pretty weak around here.

Edit:
Does anyone have experience with the PRX418? I see a good online deal. Also do you think my xls402 can run that well?  Since its 8ohm I can use bridged mono.  The crown data sheet says the xls 402 can output 900w average power with 0.5% THD at 1kHz.  The only problem I see is it looks like the MRX518 has a Max SPL of 127dB and the PRX418 has a max SPL of 124dB even with 300 more watts (and about $200 more new for the PRX).  That doesn't make sense to me...Less distorsion?  The frequency range is slightly different too. Maybe I'll stick with the MRX518.

[Jay Barracato]

That's true, although I already have the amp, so that would probably mean I would have to also sell my amp and an extra $100+ on the price. If I find a good deal there's no problem with going for it, but again, the used audio market is pretty weak around here.

Edit:
Does anyone have experience with the PRX418? I see a good online deal. Also do you think my xls402 can run that well?  Since its 8ohm I can use bridged mono.  The crown data sheet says the xls 402 can output 900w average power with 0.5% THD at 1kHz.  The only problem I see is it looks like the MRX518 has a Max SPL of 127dB and the PRX418 has a max SPL of 124dB even with 300 more watts (and about $200 more new for the PRX).  That doesn't make sense to me...Less distorsion?  The frequency range is slightly different too. Maybe I'll stick with the MRX518.

I would suggest renting subs for your next half dozen shows plus. If you are correctly pricing your shows you should be able to cover the price of the rental plus make some extra to save for whatever you end up buying.

Honestly I don't think my small system is anything special and I have almost 300 invested in the covers for my subs. Everybody loves a deal but I think you are way off on your pricing expectations.

[Dave Rickard]

What are you using for crossover, EQ, and limiters for your sub?

[ProSoundWeb Community]