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Author Topic: Continue buying JBL PRX 600 series/or save up for line array?  (Read 22460 times)

Scott Bolt

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Re: Continue buying JBL PRX 600 series/or save up for line array?
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2012, 06:18:56 pm »

Outdoors gigs suck up bass frequencies like a sponge.  I don't do enough of them to make it worth my while to own my own, but for 500 people outdoors, I think you would be looking at 4 SRX 728's and amps to go with them. 

This is like having 10 (or more) PRX618S-XLF's so you are right.  Two isn't going to cut it at such a venue.

I would say that two XLF's are only eclipsed in output by the LS801P's (speaker for speaker in their price class), but I prefer the sound of the XLF's.
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Tim Weaver

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Re: Continue buying JBL PRX 600 series/or save up for line array?
« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2012, 06:44:18 pm »

Outdoors gigs suck up bass frequencies like a sponge.  I don't do enough of them to make it worth my while to own my own, but for 500 people outdoors, I think you would be looking at 4 SRX 728's and amps to go with them. 

This is like having 10 (or more) PRX618S-XLF's so you are right.  Two isn't going to cut it at such a venue.

I would say that two XLF's are only eclipsed in output by the LS801P's (speaker for speaker in their price class), but I prefer the sound of the XLF's.

Especially for EDM. The yorkvilles don't dig deep enough for dance music.
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Randall Hyde

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Re: Continue buying JBL PRX 600 series/or save up for line array?
« Reply #32 on: October 09, 2012, 11:28:37 pm »

Outdoors gigs suck up bass frequencies like a sponge.  I don't do enough of them to make it worth my while to own my own, but for 500 people outdoors, I think you would be looking at 4 SRX 728's and amps to go with them. 

This is like having 10 (or more) PRX618S-XLF's so you are right.  Two isn't going to cut it at such a venue.

I would say that two XLF's are only eclipsed in output by the LS801P's (speaker for speaker in their price class), but I prefer the sound of the XLF's.

I usually do shows in the 1,500 to 2,000 range with 4 SRX 728s cabinets. Granted, your choice of amps has a big effect on how well the 728s cabinets work -- I use ITech 8000 amps. I've run six of them in a cardiod sub arrangement for crowds of up to 3,500; granted, I'm not caving in chests at 300-400' with these guys, but you can still hear the low end even if you can't feel it.

To someone a bit back in this thread that was recommending XTi 4002 amps for 728s cabinets -- let's just say that when I was running 4 SRX 728s cabinets off four XTi 4000 amps (bridged) I wasn't very happy with the sound; switching to the ITechs made a *huge* difference. The 728s cabs work best when you feed them a lot of power (3,000-4,000 watts seems to work real well); the 2,400 (or so) that the XTi 4002 will supply, particularly with the lower-end power supply in the XTi amps, really hurts things.

This is also why a 728s cabinet will walk all over a pair of 618s XLF cabinets. The 618s has a 1,000-watt amp (so Crown/JBL claims; next to the power cord it says max 600 watts, so 1,000 is for very brief transients and given my experience blowing these things up I wouldn't want to push it to 500 watts continuous for any length of time). With the 728s (or 718s), you get to put a decent amp on the thing and make it really rock out.

I haven't looked recently (and don't recall), but I suspect that the STX 828s cabinets are even heavier than the 728s cabinets (ceramic vs. neodymium magnets); 728s cabs are a bit too big and heavy for one-man outfits; STX 828s even more so.

Cheers,
Randy Hyde
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Kai Lydgate

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Re: Continue buying JBL PRX 600 series/or save up for line array?
« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2012, 02:38:43 pm »

So my understanding is that the PRX XLF subs are using the same drivers as SRX subwoofers, but SRX "step all over" the PRX because you can run more power through them?
 I have read other forums on this website comparing the JBL VRX918S with PRX XLF...it also seems that the VRX sub is using the same drivers, but with amps rated for 1500 watts (750 w continuous). The VRX sub resembles the SRX sub a lot more closely than the PRX...and I can find them online for about $1,400 (soundbroker).
  Will I get the same output with a pair of these guys, as I would get with a pair of (properly powered) srx 18s? Would it be possible to pair my PRX 635s with the VRX subs...as the VRX are array speakers? Why does the VRX sub go all the way up to 220 hz, is it compensating for midbass that isn't present in the 12" array tops?
 Any thoughts on this would be great, thanks!


I usually do shows in the 1,500 to 2,000 range with 4 SRX 728s cabinets. Granted, your choice of amps has a big effect on how well the 728s cabinets work -- I use ITech 8000 amps. I've run six of them in a cardiod sub arrangement for crowds of up to 3,500; granted, I'm not caving in chests at 300-400' with these guys, but you can still hear the low end even if you can't feel it.

To someone a bit back in this thread that was recommending XTi 4002 amps for 728s cabinets -- let's just say that when I was running 4 SRX 728s cabinets off four XTi 4000 amps (bridged) I wasn't very happy with the sound; switching to the ITechs made a *huge* difference. The 728s cabs work best when you feed them a lot of power (3,000-4,000 watts seems to work real well); the 2,400 (or so) that the XTi 4002 will supply, particularly with the lower-end power supply in the XTi amps, really hurts things.

This is also why a 728s cabinet will walk all over a pair of 618s XLF cabinets. The 618s has a 1,000-watt amp (so Crown/JBL claims; next to the power cord it says max 600 watts, so 1,000 is for very brief transients and given my experience blowing these things up I wouldn't want to push it to 500 watts continuous for any length of time). With the 728s (or 718s), you get to put a decent amp on the thing and make it really rock out.

I haven't looked recently (and don't recall), but I suspect that the STX 828s cabinets are even heavier than the 728s cabinets (ceramic vs. neodymium magnets); 728s cabs are a bit too big and heavy for one-man outfits; STX 828s even more so.

Cheers,
Randy Hyde
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Tim Weaver

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Re: Continue buying JBL PRX 600 series/or save up for line array?
« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2012, 11:06:04 pm »

So my understanding is that the PRX XLF subs are using the same drivers as SRX subwoofers, but SRX "step all over" the PRX because you can run more power through them?
 I have read other forums on this website comparing the JBL VRX918S with PRX XLF...it also seems that the VRX sub is using the same drivers, but with amps rated for 1500 watts (750 w continuous). The VRX sub resembles the SRX sub a lot more closely than the PRX...and I can find them online for about $1,400 (soundbroker).
  Will I get the same output with a pair of these guys, as I would get with a pair of (properly powered) srx 18s? Would it be possible to pair my PRX 635s with the VRX subs...as the VRX are array speakers? Why does the VRX sub go all the way up to 220 hz, is it compensating for midbass that isn't present in the 12" array tops?
 Any thoughts on this would be great, thanks!

This is exactly why you should stay with a smaller, powered rig. You don't even know what you don't know yet.  ;D

The VRX subs work and sound great. And, they are just subs plain and simple. Just because they have rigging on them doesn't mean anything. There is no reason why a flyable sub wouldn't work for you ground stacked. The only difference is that you are paying for rigging that you will never need.

Take this for instance:
     A PRX618XLF has a street price of 1020.65
     A VRX918SP has a street price of 1585.10

You can buy 6 PRX ($6123.90) or 4 VRX ($6340.40) for basically the same price. Now which setup do you think has the advantage?

Now consider that you are using these for the most punishing type of usage that any sub will encounter. Edm. Do you want the sub that is powered up to it's maximum, and pushed hard all night because there are fewer of them? Or do you want the sub that is powered well under it's maximum and is not working as hard because there are more drivers to do the work?



Your 635's will pair with any sub on the market. It doesn't have to say PRX on the side. For that matter it doesn't have to say JBL on it either.

The VRX918SP goes up to 220 Hz so that you can use your own crossover and fine tune the sub to top integration yourself. It also has a button for a low pass filter that is set at (I think) 80 Hz.
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Kai Lydgate

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Re: Continue buying JBL PRX 600 series/or save up for line array?
« Reply #35 on: October 11, 2012, 12:47:32 am »

The music I play (Reggae, Dub, EDM, DNB, Hip Hop) is all about that low bass. So in order for me to express my music properly, I want a system that has a frequency response down to 30 Hz. I know it sounds like overkill for most of you...thats the point! I want bass that you can FEEL in your gut, the kind of bass that draws air out of your lungs!
 
Heres a question. Would the overall frequency response of my system drop down below 39 hz if I were to keep adding PRX XLF subs? I take it that direct radiating subwoofers don't behave like horn loaded subs in that sense huh?

I'm simply not satisfied with the XLF, certain low notes will be barely audible/present (without these notes the song doesn't sound/feel right)

Thinking back to high school, I used to build huge sealed subwoofer boxes and equip them with 12" walmart subwoofers/ car audio subs. Those would go lower than the XLF (indoors hooked up to a 500 watt peavey amp)!
They must make some kind of PA subwoofer with high Xmax like a car sub...intended for smaller areas ofcourse (it must require a huge amount of power though). I'm looking at the JTR orbit shifters, they seem to fit the bill.


This is exactly why you should stay with a smaller, powered rig. You don't even know what you don't know yet.  ;D

The VRX subs work and sound great. And, they are just subs plain and simple. Just because they have rigging on them doesn't mean anything. There is no reason why a flyable sub wouldn't work for you ground stacked. The only difference is that you are paying for rigging that you will never need.

Take this for instance:
     A PRX618XLF has a street price of 1020.65
     A VRX918SP has a street price of 1585.10

You can buy 6 PRX ($6123.90) or 4 VRX ($6340.40) for basically the same price. Now which setup do you think has the advantage?

Now consider that you are using these for the most punishing type of usage that any sub will encounter. Edm. Do you want the sub that is powered up to it's maximum, and pushed hard all night because there are fewer of them? Or do you want the sub that is powered well under it's maximum and is not working as hard because there are more drivers to do the work?



Your 635's will pair with any sub on the market. It doesn't have to say PRX on the side. For that matter it doesn't have to say JBL on it either.

The VRX918SP goes up to 220 Hz so that you can use your own crossover and fine tune the sub to top integration yourself. It also has a button for a low pass filter that is set at (I think) 80 Hz.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2012, 01:02:09 am by Kai Lydgate »
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Tim Weaver

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Re: Continue buying JBL PRX 600 series/or save up for line array?
« Reply #36 on: October 11, 2012, 01:59:51 am »

The music I play (Reggae, Dub, EDM, DNB, Hip Hop) is all about that low bass. So in order for me to express my music properly, I want a system that has a frequency response down to 30 Hz. I know it sounds like overkill for most of you...thats the point! I want bass that you can FEEL in your gut, the kind of bass that draws air out of your lungs!
 
Heres a question. Would the overall frequency response of my system drop down below 39 hz if I were to keep adding PRX XLF subs? I take it that direct radiating subwoofers don't behave like horn loaded subs in that sense huh?

I'm simply not satisfied with the XLF, certain low notes will be barely audible/present (without these notes the song doesn't sound/feel right)

Thinking back to high school, I used to build huge sealed subwoofer boxes and equip them with 12" walmart subwoofers/ car audio subs. Those would go lower than the XLF (indoors hooked up to a 500 watt peavey amp)!
They must make some kind of PA subwoofer with high Xmax like a car sub...intended for smaller areas ofcourse (it must require a huge amount of power though). I'm looking at the JTR orbit shifters, they seem to fit the bill.

98% of all pro audio subs will have no meaningful output below 30hz. We just don't need it and it is truly difficult to play that low with any authority.

If you truly want to go that low, you are going to have to spend a ton of money. Look at the LAB sub (in multiples), Danley sound labs, BassMaxx, or the JTR captivator.

Any of these options are going to need an amplifier that will cost you a couple grand as well.

Going low, loudly, is quite expensive. You could easily spend over 10 grand on subs that will just keep up with your PRX635's.
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Scott Bolt

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Re: Continue buying JBL PRX 600 series/or save up for line array?
« Reply #37 on: October 11, 2012, 09:03:25 am »

A single SRX718 does not "step all over" a single PRX618S-XLF.  If anything, I would say that the edge would go to the XLF since most people would not have the ability to setup the 718 externally as well as the XLF is already setup internally.

And while I agree that 4 728's will "cover" 1000 people if all you want to do is "hear" the bass, if you want to thump them, you are going to need more.  Hip hop music is all about thumping IME.

To the OP,
This really comes down to your budget and how much you want to load.

Do you have 20K to do this with?  Are you willing to load 4-6 double 18" speakers and their amp racks?  Can you proplerly setup a large sound system with cross-overs, limiters, time delays and equalization?

If so, then there is no comparison needed.  Just get yourself the SRX728's some high powered XTI amps, a driverack 260, and you will have a slammin DJ rig.

If your budget is more limited, you don't have a trailer capable of holding so much gear, and you have no idea what a driverack 260 is, then you are much better off getting another pair of PRX618S-XLF's.

If you want a power alley right on the dance floor, put 2 on each side.  If you want to distribute the bass more evenly, cluster the 4 subs in the middle.

Unless you have 50-100K, you aren't going to be getting sub 30Hz at DJ levels outdoors.  Someone has been selling you a pipe dream.
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Spenser Hamilton

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Re: Continue buying JBL PRX 600 series/or save up for line array?
« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2012, 09:19:01 am »

Properly powered, 4 728's would be quite adequate, indoors at least.

The OP needs to take a closer look at his music collection, see where the fundamentals really lie, I remember being in the same boat and then I did further research and found that my collection just did not have as much sub bass as I thought it did. Based on the music styles listed, I would be quite surprised if anything went lower than 35Hz, and most of it probably wouldn't go much under 40Hz.

A single SRX718 does not "step all over" a single PRX618S-XLF.  If anything, I would say that the edge would go to the XLF since most people would not have the ability to setup the 718 externally as well as the XLF is already setup internally.

And while I agree that 4 728's will "cover" 1000 people if all you want to do is "hear" the bass, if you want to thump them, you are going to need more.  Hip hop music is all about thumping IME.

To the OP,
This really comes down to your budget and how much you want to load.

Do you have 20K to do this with?  Are you willing to load 4-6 double 18" speakers and their amp racks?  Can you proplerly setup a large sound system with cross-overs, limiters, time delays and equalization?

If so, then there is no comparison needed.  Just get yourself the SRX728's some high powered XTI amps, a driverack 260, and you will have a slammin DJ rig.

If your budget is more limited, you don't have a trailer capable of holding so much gear, and you have no idea what a driverack 260 is, then you are much better off getting another pair of PRX618S-XLF's.

If you want a power alley right on the dance floor, put 2 on each side.  If you want to distribute the bass more evenly, cluster the 4 subs in the middle.

Unless you have 50-100K, you aren't going to be getting sub 30Hz at DJ levels outdoors.  Someone has been selling you a pipe dream.
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Re: Continue buying JBL PRX 600 series/or save up for line array?
« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2012, 09:19:01 am »


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