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Author Topic: Continue buying JBL PRX 600 series/or save up for line array?  (Read 22878 times)

Kai Lydgate

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Re: Continue buying JBL PRX 600 series/or save up for line array?
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2012, 02:29:59 am »

Cliff,
You reckon a pair of PRX 635 would "scale" well with a pair of these VRX918sp subs...in terms of DSP/crossover? Would I need to buy external processors?

The VRX918sp might be worth a look. Pretty much a powered SRX718.
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Bob Leonard

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Re: Continue buying JBL PRX 600 series/or save up for line array?
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2012, 05:16:23 am »

Kai,
You're at a point where your next purchase is meaningful. It will be the purchase that will either make or break you. It's the purchase that will require a large ROI before you can start over, or before you expand with it.

I have a large investment in JBL SRX cabinets and QSC amplifiers. I have not been let down once by my system with crowds up to two thousand people outdoors. Anything larger is a rental, or I'm opening for an act with a larger system anyway.

I agree with Randy. Save your pennies and take your next step with the purchase of;

2ea. STX835

2ea. STX828

1ea. DBX Driverack 260

2ea. QSC PL380 amplifiers


You'll be able to handle 500+ people, and a decent sized club without an issue. You'll also have the advantage of being able to expand as your budget allows.

MI is an abbreviation for "musical instrument". This goes back to the day when product was manufactured specifically for that industry.

Today MI is often used to infer lower quality hardware. This is actually not the case as most quality sound equipment, including STX cabinets, can be purchased from a musical instrument dealer. It's an expression I try to not use.

What most people forget or don't realize is that at one time MI indicated a more rugged version of a similar product. For instance, the famous and still highly desired JBL D120 was developed for the "MI" industry and marketed as such. The D120 was an off the shelf driver modified by Gertz giving the driver the ability to withstand incredible punishment in guitar amplifiers far exceeding the ability of any speaker on the market at that time.

Please take you time with this next purchase.

 
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Randall Hyde

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Re: Continue buying JBL PRX 600 series/or save up for line array?
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2012, 01:09:21 pm »

Randy,
Thanks for the reply, what exactly does "MI" stand for?
Bob answered this: "Music Industry"
Think "consumer" vs. "pro".

Quote
So lets take my PRX 635 for example...it has a 90 x 50 nominal coverage, while the STX825 has a 90˚ 50˚ nominal coverage. You say that PRX speakers don't scale well...so why is that not the case for the STX line?
To be honest, the STX line doesn't scale well either. But it starts at a point so much farther along than the PRX that you won't have to worry about it for a while.  E.g., my PRX cabinets "claim" to have 1,500 watts. This is a marketing dept. *lie*. They have two 500-watt *peak* amps for the two 15' drivers and something much smaller (not stated) for the horns. The 1,500-watt spec, according to a JBL salesperson I talked to at NAMM, was because the horn produced the same SPL as 500 watts fed into the 15" drivers.

Of course, the 500 watts per driver is a bit of a fantasy. Look at the back of the cabinet next to the power cord. Maximum power draw is 600 watts. So they can't really get 1,500 watts out of the thing except for brief instances when they drain capacitors in the power supply (that will have to be recharged when running well below 600 watts before you can peak like that again). Having blown up the power supplies in three PRX 625 cabinets now, I don't recommend this mode of operation for PRX cabinets.

My SRX rig, on the other hand, is bi-ampable and can handle 4800 watts peak (2,400 watts program). I run it off an ITech 8000 amp (4000 watts into 4 Ohms, with appropriate limiters, of course). It blows the PRX cabinets to bits. With two SRX 725 cabinets (70 degree coverage) per side and four SRX 728s subs I can handle as many as 1,500-2,000 people. Adding another pair of subs and two 725 cabinets as delay stacks, I can bump this up by about 500 people (and make the SPL near the stage a little more bearable for the audience).

I've tried using the PRX as the delay stacks for my SRX rig. They just don't have the umph. They work for about 30-50 feet and then all you hear is the SRX rig. The PRX cabinets are good for small shows (250-500 people), but don't work well beyond that.

Quote

 The STX series seems like the best option for me...it looks to me like unpowered version of the VP series, but if that was the case then why such a great price difference? Well considering that the amps/dsp is all built in, it might end up costing me around the same after buying amps/dsp/eq etc?
Look at the price of new Crown ITech amps and you'll see why those cabinets are so expensive :)

Quote
If not the STX, even the SRX seems better than PRX 600...looks/specs/scale-'ability' wise! What do you think?
I like the SRX a lot.
When it comes for me to move on up to the next level, I'll be looking at Danley SH46 cabinets.
Cheers,
Randy Hyde
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Kai Lydgate

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Re: Continue buying JBL PRX 600 series/or save up for line array?
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2012, 03:06:37 pm »

Randy,
Great reply...you make some really good observations about the PRX line. Theres nothing I hate more than these damn marketing schemes! I thought JBL would have the decency to give accurate specs....but its clear to me now that the PRX600 line and other similar "MI" speakers are simply not marketed for high performance. I suppose the consumer target for these kinds of speakers are people like me who don't know much about the technical side of sound (young guys who want "big sound" for cheap).
 Just the way the advertisement for these speakers is...looking back I feel like a fool having bought these. They try to win over people with stuff like RUGGED, LOUD, 1,500 WATTS!!!....what a joke huh.

To be honest, the PRX 635 and XLF combo has served me well for most indoor events...outdoors is a whole different story. Last show I did was an outdoor play/acrobatics performace where the sound had to cover about a 1 acre area (just so they could hear music/commentary). 250 people were all situated under a big tent, and I had monitor speakers facing the performers (there was no stage, they were actually hanging in trees).

Anyways, to make a long story short...I was able to pull of this event with one single PRX635 and a single XLF sub. About 100 feet away people were struggling to hear what the commentator was saying...but only a few people complained. In the end the event went very well (250 people at $100 bucks a head, go figure!!)

So lets compare the total prices of three possible options here...

4 X PRX635 = $5000
4 X PRX618 = $5200
Total= $10,200

2 X SRX728 = $3000
2 X SRX738 = $4000
2 X QSCPL380 = $5000
1 X DBX DSP = $1000
Total= $13,000 ( maybe $10,000 if I get used speakers/amps)

2 X STX835 = $5000
2 X STX825 = $4000
(how many powersoft 380s would I need for this system)?....probably more than just 2 right (that goes for the 700 series also, as I hear they are power hungry)
So lets say...more than $5000-7500 for amps.
1 X DBX processing = $1000
Total price = $15,000-$18,000

VP series...
2 X VP7315/64DP = $15,000
2 X VPSB7118DP =  $10,000

Total= Give or take $25,000


So being that the VP and STX series are sorta out of my budget at the moment...the SRX seems like the best choice, especially if I can find used gear!
  So do you guys think i should stick with JBL....I have owned peavey gear in the past, its waay cheaper and actually sounds pretty good. I'm looking at the Peavey QW218 right now....it looks about the same as the JBL SRX728, maybe even a bit better? What do you guys think about the Peavey amps?

Thanks for the help everyone! You guys are awesome! 
 



Bob answered this: "Music Industry"
Think "consumer" vs. "pro".
To be honest, the STX line doesn't scale well either. But it starts at a point so much farther along than the PRX that you won't have to worry about it for a while.  E.g., my PRX cabinets "claim" to have 1,500 watts. This is a marketing dept. *lie*. They have two 500-watt *peak* amps for the two 15' drivers and something much smaller (not stated) for the horns. The 1,500-watt spec, according to a JBL salesperson I talked to at NAMM, was because the horn produced the same SPL as 500 watts fed into the 15" drivers.

Of course, the 500 watts per driver is a bit of a fantasy. Look at the back of the cabinet next to the power cord. Maximum power draw is 600 watts. So they can't really get 1,500 watts out of the thing except for brief instances when they drain capacitors in the power supply (that will have to be recharged when running well below 600 watts before you can peak like that again). Having blown up the power supplies in three PRX 625 cabinets now, I don't recommend this mode of operation for PRX cabinets.

My SRX rig, on the other hand, is bi-ampable and can handle 4800 watts peak (2,400 watts program). I run it off an ITech 8000 amp (4000 watts into 4 Ohms, with appropriate limiters, of course). It blows the PRX cabinets to bits. With two SRX 725 cabinets (70 degree coverage) per side and four SRX 728s subs I can handle as many as 1,500-2,000 people. Adding another pair of subs and two 725 cabinets as delay stacks, I can bump this up by about 500 people (and make the SPL near the stage a little more bearable for the audience).

I've tried using the PRX as the delay stacks for my SRX rig. They just don't have the umph. They work for about 30-50 feet and then all you hear is the SRX rig. The PRX cabinets are good for small shows (250-500 people), but don't work well beyond that.
Look at the price of new Crown ITech amps and you'll see why those cabinets are so expensive :)
I like the SRX a lot.
When it comes for me to move on up to the next level, I'll be looking at Danley SH46 cabinets.
Cheers,
Randy Hyde
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Chuck Simon

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Re: Continue buying JBL PRX 600 series/or save up for line array?
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2012, 04:48:38 pm »

First of all it's Powerlight not Powersoft(big difference), and two of them would be plenty - enough to do damage at 2500 watts per side into to 4 ohm cabs.
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Kai Lydgate

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Re: Continue buying JBL PRX 600 series/or save up for line array?
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2012, 05:01:59 pm »

Chuck,
My bad...yes a Powersoft would be nice, I dream big don't I? Anyways...I'm actually considering just switching over to a pair of horn loaded 18s powered by a PL380. Saw an online demo of those JTR Orbit shifters....thats the kind of bass I need! They say a single orbit shifter outperforms a srx728 in terms of output/deepness. The orbit shifters are only about 200 dollars more than a srx728. This seems like the way to go, what do you think?
 
First of all it's Powerlight not Powersoft(big difference), and two of them would be plenty - enough to do damage at 2500 watts per side into to 4 ohm cabs.
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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: Continue buying JBL PRX 600 series/or save up for line array?
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2012, 05:05:34 pm »

Do you know that your surname means "Sound Street" in Norwegian?
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James A. Griffin

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Re: Continue buying JBL PRX 600 series/or save up for line array?
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2012, 05:18:37 pm »

Do you know that your surname means "Sound Street" in Norwegian?

Dick,

Do you know that your surname means  "Visionary" in BackwardLandia?
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Kai Lydgate

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Re: Continue buying JBL PRX 600 series/or save up for line array?
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2012, 05:23:12 pm »

Wow you are right! This is the first time anyone has pointed that out to me...and no one in my family that i know of is of Norwegian descent. From what I know, Lydgate is a district of London...and also the surname of a 12th century English poet.
 Sound Street....I should open up a music store in Norway then eh?! ahah wonder why my Norwegian buddies never told me this?!

Do you know that your surname means "Sound Street" in Norwegian?
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Kai Lydgate

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Re: Continue buying JBL PRX 600 series/or save up for line array?
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2012, 05:27:24 pm »

He's actually right...I checked it out on google translator! Don't think dick is trying to be a prick or anything LOL!

Dick,

Do you know that your surname means  "Visionary" in BackwardLandia?
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Re: Continue buying JBL PRX 600 series/or save up for line array?
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2012, 05:27:24 pm »


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