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Author Topic: Seeking Help with Beatles Live Sound  (Read 32483 times)

Ivan Beaver

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Re: Seeking Help with Beatles Live Sound
« Reply #50 on: April 01, 2015, 08:45:13 pm »



Those look like the kind of columns (early line arrays?) used to limit vertical dispersion in churches and gyms. 
Anytime you put speaker in a vertical "line" you get the "line array" effect at some freq.

As you go up in freq you need to start using smaller and smaller drivers to get them to work decently.

This was described (as well as the lobing that occurs-and the manufacturers would like for you to forget), a couple of decades before this photo was taken.

Shure actually described the "effect" in ads for the "Vocal Master", and the narrowing of the pattern.  I have some early ads that talk about it.

That is part of the reason that the 8" drivers in the vocal master were in the middle, and the 10" were on the top and bottom of the cabinet.  Because the lower freq can be further apart to get the same "narrowing" as the higher freq.

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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Stephen Kirby

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Re: Seeking Help with Beatles Live Sound
« Reply #51 on: April 02, 2015, 02:13:50 pm »

Agreed.  Most of the old Argos columns used 5 or 6" drivers and were intended for speech.  So unless Johnny Cash was giving the sermon they did function as line sources.  The four 10's in the Vox columns or the mix in the Vocal masters were less of true line sources over the range of singers but went louder, which was more important at the time.  Those things on the infield in Shea look like they must have had 8 or 10" drivers as well.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Seeking Help with Beatles Live Sound
« Reply #52 on: April 02, 2015, 08:09:29 pm »

Agreed.  Most of the old Argos columns used 5 or 6" drivers and were intended for speech.  So unless Johnny Cash was giving the sermon they did function as line sources.  The four 10's in the Vox columns or the mix in the Vocal masters were less of true line sources over the range of singers but went louder, which was more important at the time.  Those things on the infield in Shea look like they must have had 8 or 10" drivers as well.
However what those old columns "missed" was the spacing of the drivers.

I am not aware of any of those columns that had the drivers actually touching-or close enough to work well.

Simply using small drivers does not mean you will get better performance.  Only if they are close enough.

My "gut feeling" is that they used small driver due to lower component costs and smaller cabinets for lower costs.  And they provided enough output for the intended purposes.

Heck even Marshall (yes the guitar amp company) had various "line" columns-starting with 8" speakers and 20 watt PA heads.

Yes times were different back then-----------
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Bob Leonard

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Re: Seeking Help with Beatles Live Sound
« Reply #53 on: June 06, 2015, 06:41:05 am »

Ivan,
In the 60's there weren't many drivers available that could handle the punishing power of 50-100 watt amplifiers. We used 8" and 10" drivers in most cases, and always an even number, because the correct 8 or 16 ohm impedance was easier to achieve. A common large column consisted of 6 to 10 8 or 10" drivers usually rated at 15-25 watts. 10" Jensens became popular because they were cheap, but if one let go, they all let go. Just couldn't handle much power. In the later 60's we started to move to 12" columns, 4 drivers per box, because they were easy to handle in that format. Surprisingly even the home made columns of the day could be made to sound pretty good, and I have many fond memories of PA's made up of Bogan amplifiers columns and big University horns. Monitors? We were lucky if we had some Fender cabinets to use, but back in that day whatever worked, worked.

http://www.beatlesbible.com/1965/08/15/live-shea-stadium-new-york/
 
 
 http://www.thebeatles.com/film/beatles-shea-stadium

« Last Edit: June 06, 2015, 06:50:52 am by Bob Leonard »
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BOSTON STRONG........
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Steve M Smith

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Re: Seeking Help with Beatles Live Sound
« Reply #54 on: June 06, 2015, 09:28:51 am »

We used 8" and 10" drivers in most cases, and always an even number, because the correct 8 or 16 ohm impedance was easier to achieve.


In England, Charlie Watkins would often parallel connect two 16 ohm Celestion drivers in one cabinet them put a 6 ohm sign on the back.




Steve.
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Dennis Wiggins

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Re: Seeking Help with Beatles Live Sound
« Reply #55 on: December 07, 2015, 07:25:01 pm »

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Atlas horn drivers were less expensive and gave acceptable performance, so they were used on the EV 511 horns.
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They were probably Altec "511 horns".  I used 511Bs, with Peavey 22A drivers, successfully throughout  the 80's.

-Dennis
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