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Author Topic: On a quest for a new mixer  (Read 9453 times)

Scott Wagner

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Re: On a quest for a new mixer
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2012, 10:35:57 pm »

The reason I asked about the dbx pa+ is that it was suggested to us for the following reasons:
It has a on board 31 band EQ (to help balance the room sound),
12 narrow notch feedback filters (nock out feedback from the mains from vocals and lavaliere mics)
and a crossover (for a subwoofer control) to name a few.
He was also suggesting the Behringer X32.

If the dbx pa+ is a good thing would it make more sense to pair it with a A&H ZED428?
You mixer choice is fine, if it meets your needs.  As for the processor, in the dbx line I wouldn't bother with anything less than the 260.  Of course, there are many other options than the dbx.  If the price of the 260 makes you cringe, in the lowest price market many people recommend the Behringer DCX2496.  Disclaimer: I have no direct experience with this particular piece of kit.
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Scott Wagner
Big Nickel Audio

Jason Lucas

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Re: On a quest for a new mixer
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2012, 12:22:10 am »

You mixer choice is fine, if it meets your needs.  As for the processor, in the dbx line I wouldn't bother with anything less than the 260.  Of course, there are many other options than the dbx.  If the price of the 260 makes you cringe, in the lowest price market many people recommend the Behringer DCX2496.  Disclaimer: I have no direct experience with this particular piece of kit.

Out of curiosity, what do you have against the DBX DRPA+ ?
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There are three things I hate: Harsh highs, hollow mids, and woofy bass.

Scott Wagner

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Re: On a quest for a new mixer
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2012, 01:43:58 am »

Out of curiosity, what do you have against the DBX DRPA+ ?
Well, since you asked, I don't think it sounds very good.  There's not nearly enough delay for anything useful.  The AutoEQ nonsense causes more problems than it solves.  AFS might be useful if you only let it grab a few frequencies, otherwise it will ruin your sound in a hurry if left in Auto mode.  The limiters are, shall we say, limited.  This unit is aimed squarely at the "people who might not know enough", and it provides them with all the tools they need to ruin the performance of their system.  A step up to the Driverack260 puts you into a whole new world.

These are my opinions on this particular product from a brand that I hold in high regard.  They are not gospel nor even universally accepted.  Take them with a grain of salt, and do your own research.  From my perspective, there are a great number of processors available that actually sound good, and many of them can be found on the used market for the same money as a new PA+.  I'm offering these opinions to try to assist the OP into making an informed purchasing decision.  Buy once, cry once.  Of course, anyone is welcomed to learn the hard (and expensive) way if they choose.  YMMV, and I wish you all success in your endevors.
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Scott Wagner
Big Nickel Audio

Kent Thompson

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Re: On a quest for a new mixer
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2012, 11:39:47 am »

Out of curiosity, what do you have against the DBX DRPA+ ?

The biggest issue I have is the 10 ms delay limit. If speakers are flown and subs are any where but directly under the speakers there may not be enough delay available to bring them into alignment. Fill speakers depending on the location will never have enough delay.

If you will or are planning to have fills that need delay or if there could be a lot of distance between your subs and mains it is not the right tool for the job. It is probably fine for mains stacked on subs setup in a budget setup. Just have to be careful of the limitations of the unit and make sure you don't hamstring yourself later on if speaker placements changes cause any of the above situations.
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Jeb Brooks

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Re: On a quest for a new mixer
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2012, 12:43:54 am »

The biggest issue I have is the 10 ms delay limit. If speakers are flown and subs are any where but directly under the speakers there may not be enough delay available to bring them into alignment. Fill speakers depending on the location will never have enough delay.

If you will or are planning to have fills that need delay or if there could be a lot of distance between your subs and mains it is not the right tool for the job. It is probably fine for mains stacked on subs setup in a budget setup. Just have to be careful of the limitations of the unit and make sure you don't hamstring yourself later on if speaker placements changes cause any of the above situations.
Is there another option available for dbx pa+ at about the same price point? Also, we already have the Behringer Feedback Destroyer Pro FBQ2496 would it be necessary to use the dbx pa+ or should I just pass the Behringer onto someone else.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 08:53:13 am by Jeb Brooks »
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Jeb Brooks

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Re: On a quest for a new mixer
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2012, 07:35:09 pm »

  When I first started looking into mixers I knew I wanted something with 24 channels and recording capabilities and I was looking in the $2000 range. The first board that I liked was the A&H ZED428 and I am still considering it.Another board that I am considering is A&H GL2800-24. I know it does not have the recording capabilities of the ZED428 but I do like the 8 busses. I found one online for $2500, used but still under warranty.
  Later I was told that I can spend up to $3000 with a leeway of a couple of hundred dollars. So now I am considering the Studiolive24. Then I had a local guy who does sound for our local theatre suggest that we need a PA management system like the dbx pa+ for what it offers plus we do plan to add subs to our pa system.
  Bottom line either go with the StudioLive now and pick up a dbx next year or get one of the A&H mixer and the dbx now.
Thanks for all the comments.
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Arnold B. Krueger

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Re: On a quest for a new mixer
« Reply #26 on: August 11, 2012, 08:17:16 am »

I have been in the position of spending my churches money on 5 Behringer ADA8000s for our mixer only to need to go back and replace every one of them as they failed over a bit less then two years.  I never want to be in that spot again and I don't want to see any other church in that spot. 

Interesting, I have 2 ADA8000s that are at least 7 years old, and they still run great.

I have a friend who is a Behringer dealer and he tells me that Behringer's approach is to build a jilliion whatevers, warehouse them for a while (sometimes years) and when they empty the warehouse, build another jillion. That means that if a batch turns out to be lemons, then they sell lemons of that model for however long. And, if they build a jillion that are golden, ditto.

All my Behringer stuff has been very good. Its lasted for at least a decade, worst case.

Oh, and the ADAs front end an 02r96, and it is running strong after the same amount of time. If I had to get another console, I'd look first at LS9s. If I was at the low end, I'd look hard at the 01V96.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2012, 08:20:48 am by Arnold B. Krueger »
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Arnold B. Krueger

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Re: On a quest for a new mixer
« Reply #27 on: August 11, 2012, 08:25:05 am »

It may or may not provide the signal processing and routing you'd like to have for a system processor, that all depends on the application.
 
My biggest problem with using the processing in digital consoles for speaker system processing is that you are then often using the same processing for multiple purposes. 

Anyone wanting to apply any subjective or artistic processing during an event or performance has to access and alter the same processing that is serving as the speaker system processing.  I prefer to separate the two and allow the console processing to be used for whatever is needed or desired for a particular event or performance without it affecting or requiring access to the system processing.  In most cases I'll take the extra D/A and A/D latency over letting inexperienced or outside users access the system limiting and other system processing.

So as I read this, you're not worried about running processing for 2 different kinds of needs at the same time, but you are worried about letting two different people share the same console for two different purposes.

I get that, particularly in a large shop where the speaker management guy and the FOH mixer are two different people.

However in a small shop, where those functions are done by the same guy who presumably knows how to separate the two functions, and is on the hook if he screws up any part of the console, would you have the same concerns?
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Brad Weber

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Re: On a quest for a new mixer
« Reply #28 on: August 11, 2012, 02:04:27 pm »

So as I read this, you're not worried about running processing for 2 different kinds of needs at the same time, but you are worried about letting two different people share the same console for two different purposes.

I get that, particularly in a large shop where the speaker management guy and the FOH mixer are two different people.

However in a small shop, where those functions are done by the same guy who presumably knows how to separate the two functions, and is on the hook if he screws up any part of the console, would you have the same concerns?
Remember what forum this is in, the majority of relevant situations are probably installed systems being operated by people whose expertise and experience can vary tremendously.  Thus what I like to so is to provide processing that is readily accessible to an operator from the processing used to tune the installed system that should not need to be adjusted.  In public venues, churches, schools, etc. it may be beneficial to provide processing that the users can readily access that is independent of, and before, dedciated system processing that has limited access.  Thus with digital consoles I often rely on the console processing for ready accessible processing for an event or performance but utilize a separate system processor with controlled access for the installed speaker system signal routing and proccessing.
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michael sveda

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Re: On a quest for a new mixer
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2012, 12:08:01 pm »

If you do not need a crossover now, skip the driverack.  The SL24 should have a 31 band EQ you can use on the main outputs.  If you prefer you can get an analog 31 band EQ for the mains. BBE makes a good budget one that sounds decent under $200 with variable low/high pass filters.   If you do get a sub, you can get an analog crossover rather inexpensively.

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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: On a quest for a new mixer
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2012, 12:08:01 pm »


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