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Author Topic: New(-ish) comms system - GreenGo  (Read 12533 times)

Steve Anderson

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New(-ish) comms system - GreenGo
« on: August 13, 2012, 10:44:44 am »

Has anyone tried this new system out yet?
http://www.greengocom.com/
If so, thoughts or experiences?

Looks clever, no base station, no limit to users (well 3750, but who would put their hand up to work on that show) and 250 partylines... it won awards at PLASA and LDI...

Cheers
Steve
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: New(-ish) comms system - GreenGo
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2012, 11:59:52 am »

Has anyone tried this new system out yet?
http://www.greengocom.com/
If so, thoughts or experiences?

Looks clever, no base station, no limit to users (well 3750, but who would put their hand up to work on that show) and 250 partylines... it won awards at PLASA and LDI...

Cheers
Steve

Pete Erskine at Best Audio.  He just did that little ol' gig in London.  Take a look further down the Classic LAB index page...
« Last Edit: August 13, 2012, 01:34:36 pm by Tim McCulloch »
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Steve Anderson

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Re: New(-ish) comms system - GreenGo
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2012, 12:44:33 pm »

Pete Erskin at Best Audio.  He just did that little ol' gig in London.  Take a look further down the Classic LAB index page...
Haha… true, yes he did  :)

However, I wouldn't think a giant pool of partylines would scale to that size gig… but maybe he's played with it?
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Pete Erskine

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Re: New(-ish) comms system - GreenGo
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2012, 01:27:29 pm »

Looks clever, no base station, no limit to users (well 3750, but who would put their hand up to work on that show) and 250 partylines... it won awards at PLASA and LDI...

This looks very interesting.  Too bad the website is lacking any real information.  The quick setup paper is about it.
I haven't used it, yet.  What I wonder is:
1.  What they consider low latency?
2.  What is the effect of poor QoS Ethernet, esp if some of the system is connected by WiFi
3.  Is there a way to program it off line?  No info on site but there seems to be some talk of a laptop.
4.  Can beltpacks be cloned?  I will reall need to know this for a 3000+ beltpack system.
5.  Can the setup be saved?
6.  What is the audio BW?
7.  PoE has limited current supply.  Maybe they should recommend some switches or hubs which can support 30+ beltpacks on a string.
8.  Can you Y the signal without a hub, like Helixnet?
9.  Each BP has a loop thru switch - too bad it isn't 3 port.
10.  Do I need to program at each BP or master station or can I do it over the net.  This id really the crux.
Master station with only 32 switches is not adequate for the Olympics but fine for most shows.
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Henry Cohen

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Re: New(-ish) comms system - GreenGo
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2012, 02:34:24 pm »

From the "Quick Start User Guide":

This looks very interesting.  Too bad the website is lacking any real information.  The quick setup paper is about it.
I haven't used it, yet.  What I wonder is:
1.  What they consider low latency?
12mS

Quote
2.  What is the effect of poor QoS Ethernet, esp if some of the system is connected by WiFi
"The switches need to support Quality of Service (QoS) or IEEE 801.2p."

Quote
3.  Is there a way to program it off line?  No info on site but there seems to be some talk of a laptop.
4.  Can beltpacks be cloned?  I will reall need to know this for a 3000+ beltpack system.
"Clone Configuration: The top line will show the name of the current configuration. Cancel will exit this menu without changing anything. Next up to 4 other configurations found on the network will be shows and can be selected. The last option at the bottom of the list will be to load the Factory Default configuration file."

Quote
5.  Can the setup be saved?
6.  What is the audio BW?
The pdf says it's a 16kHz sample frequency with 16-bit dynamic range. Each source is 340kBits/sec (I presume bi-directional). So my guess would be 8kHz audio bandwidth.

Quote
7.  PoE has limited current supply.  Maybe they should recommend some switches or hubs which can support 30+ beltpacks on a string.
8.  Can you Y the signal without a hub, like Helixnet?
9.  Each BP has a loop thru switch - too bad it isn't 3 port.
10.  Do I need to program at each BP or master station or can I do it over the net.  This id really the crux.
Master station with only 32 switches is not adequate for the Olympics but fine for most shows.
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Henry Cohen

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Philip Roberts

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Re: New(-ish) comms system - GreenGo
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2012, 12:10:44 am »

http://www.greengocom.com/
If so, thoughts or experiences?

Looks clever, no base station, no limit to users (well 3750, but who would put their hand up to work on that show) and 250 partylines... it won awards at PLASA and LDI...

I saw them at Infocomm, a little tiny booth at the FAR end of central shared with some interesting LED off topics after market mods. They said the only reason there is a limit on channels and users is that people didn't believe them when they had earlier said "unlimited". :)

I don't think I got the chance to listen to it as they were having some connection problems (1st hour of 1st day of show).

This looks very interesting.  Too bad the website is lacking any real information.  The quick setup paper is about it.
I think the quick start guide is new, I don't remember seeing it on the site a few weeks ago.
Quote
8.  Can you Y the signal without a hub, like Helixnet?
No, this is an Ethernet based system so like all Ethernet each cable link is single point to single point.
Quote
9.  Each BP has a loop thru switch - too bad it isn't 3 port.
Sorry your wrong, the BP has only a single ethercon jack, the rack/desk stations do have 2 but I've never heard of PoE daisy chaining.

Quote
7.  PoE has limited current supply.  Maybe they should recommend some switches or hubs which can support 30+ beltpacks on a string.
Noting the limitations above I'm pretty sure you would need a PoE switch port per user device (BP, desk or ...) so 30 deep belt pack strings are impossible. I'm sure this may be a deal killer for some applications.


I plan to keep my eye on them for future developments as it's an interesting system at what appeared to be a reasonable price point.

Philip
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Pete Erskine

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Re: New(-ish) comms system - GreenGo
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2012, 05:51:08 am »

the BP has only a single ethercon jack, the rack/desk stations do have 2 but I've never heard of PoE daisy chaining.

This is a deal killer for me.  Needing a separate PoE port from a switch for every beltpack just won't work.  There absolutely need to be the ability to loop or split beltpacks.

The Early version of the Riedel digital beltpack (C2) was connected with Cat-5.  There was an input an an output on each BP.  This was bidirectional AES on 2 pairs but the power used the other four conductors and up to 15 BP could be on one line.
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Pete Erskine
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Steve Anderson

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Re: New(-ish) comms system - GreenGo
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2012, 11:04:23 am »

This is a deal killer for me.  Needing a separate PoE port from a switch for every beltpack just won't work.  There absolutely need to be the ability to loop or split beltpacks.
Hmmm... maybe in a future hardware version they actually could do it. Especially if there is enough "noise" from the right people  ;)

It can't be too expensive to put a 2 port ethernet switch in (with FPGAs it could be free from a hardware point of view anyway), and they could just have a really big-ass PoE supply to do a chain of them.

At 100 MBits I think the PoE uses the unused pairs... There may however be ethernet issues with doing this, I recall ethernet's 3-4-5 rule back in 50ohm coax days, the 4 indicating max repeater hops. Anyone know?

If they could fix this homerun issue it'd be good.

Like I said if the right people make enough noise...
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Joost van Eenbergen

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Re: New(-ish) comms system - GreenGo
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2012, 11:17:01 am »

Hello

let me introduce my self first

i'm joost van eenbergen system designer of the ethernet based green-go intercom system.

if you have any questions please put them here.

to comment on the list:

1.  What they consider low latency?
    12mS (as stated before)
2.  What is the effect of poor QoS Ethernet, esp if some of the system is connected by WiFi
    Only on real busy networks it would be good to use Qos and maybe vlans.
3.  Is there a way to program it off line?  No info on site but there seems to be some talk of a laptop.
   Yes you can program the system offline and then lod it into your system.
   You can localy or remotely change the user assignment
4.  Can beltpacks be cloned?  I will reall need to know this for a 3000+ beltpack system.
    Yes, you can clone the complete setting. you can even assign the same user to multiple beltpacks, without any problem (even if both beltpacks are active)
5.  Can the setup be saved?
   Yes, each unit on the network saves the complete system settings (no computer needed to run the system)
   On the PC (or MAC) software you can also save the config or load it from a device.
6.  What is the audio BW?
   16kHz sample 16bit.
7.  PoE has limited current supply.  Maybe they should recommend some switches or hubs which can support 30+ beltpacks on a string.
  Poe Can not be daisy chained. this has been a system design choice. Compared to a partyline system this is a disadvantage,
   but compared to a matrix system it is still easier. instead of running a line for each unit, you can split the line at the very last moment using a PoE switch (even a cheap one).
8.  Can you Y the signal without a hub, like Helixnet?
  a Y-split would be a PoE switch. i have doubt that helixnet would be happy with Y-splitting concerning the bitrate of the signal (but i don't know that).
9.  Each BP has a loop thru switch - too bad it isn't 3 port.
   No loop on the beltpack
10.  Do I need to program at each BP or master station or can I do it over the net.  This id really the crux.
  You can remotely program each beltpack
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Pete Erskine

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Re: New(-ish) comms system - GreenGo
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2012, 12:23:22 pm »

These are the most interesting parts of the reply for me:

You can program the system offline and then load it into your system.
You can localy or remotely change the user assignment
You can clone the complete setting. you can even assign the same user to multiple beltpacks, without any problem (even if both beltpacks are active)
Each unit on the network saves the complete system settings (no computer needed to run the system)
   On the PC (or MAC) software you can also save the config or load it from a device.
You can remotely program each beltpack


Thank you for your answers.

I have gotten a quote for the beltpack in quantities of 10 of about $860 each.
Also I understand you are about to introduce a wireless version, hopefully NOT 2.4gHz.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2012, 04:06:51 pm by Pete Erskine »
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Pete Erskine
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: New(-ish) comms system - GreenGo
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2012, 12:23:22 pm »


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