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[Scott Wagner]

So far we are not using monitors, but I hope to change that soon. When I talk about bassy sound, it's what's coming from the house speakers as there are times when there is only speech going on and that's when you notice it most. The room configuration is so that the stage is basically a 3 sided box at the front of the main room of the sanctuary. The main room is ~ 50' wide and 60' front to back. The "stage" area is centered on the width dimension and there are flat walls on either side to the edges of the main room. Now that I think about it, the stage area is probably more like 28 - 29' wide and the rest on one side is a "pocket" where the organ and piano are. The walls on either side are about 6 - 7' wide. The speakers are not actually 10' from the front but more like 3', sorry about that.  At the moment this is the best picture I can find to give you an idea of the room. The right side is just like the left with the exception that the upper level is open from the right side wall to the outside wall of the main room if that makes sense. The speakers are just in front of the first pilaster on either side and at present are aimed at the center of the back wall of the main room. The system is run in mono.

So, are you saying that you're placing the speakers in a corner (ie: coupled with two boundaries)?  That would cause significant bass enhancement (to the tune of about 6dB).  Then you're pointing two mono sources at the same place?  That would cause significant comb filtering (boosting some frequencies, and attenuating others - which would be different at almost every location).  I think you need to rethink your speaker deployment before you even think about spending any money.  Visit the "Study Hall" on this site - there's lots to read about this (and many other) subjects.

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

From the Driverack PA, yes I did.

I thought so.  The statement of the problem pointed straight to the typical "failure" of the auto-eq feature.

Do you know of a better way without buying more equipment?

Very likely...if you can follow instructions step by step and have the authority to make the needed changes.

My ears aren't good enough to do it by ear.

Yes, they are.  With proper instruction, anyone...ANYONE...who can follow simple directions can "do it by ear".

The other part is that it may also be a part of what I'm hearing, or not hearing that may be the trouble. Besides, there's no way to have the separate EQ and analyzer functions to do it manually from the DRPA.

Maybe so, maybe not. 

The first thing I'd do is sell the DRPA (which is an abominable piece of c***) and use the money for a good dual-31 band graphic EQ.

Help is available if you really want it. 

[Corey Scogin]

The first thing I'd do is sell the DRPA (which is an abominable piece of c***) and use the money for a good dual-31 band graphic EQ.

I disagree with the 2nd half of that statement at least.  The DRPA is nowhere near the weakest link in the OP's audio chain and it has a dual-31 band graphic that can be set manually.

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

I disagree with the 2nd half of that statement at least.  The DRPA is nowhere near the weakest link in the OP's audio chain and it has a dual-31 band graphic that can be set manually.

While technically correct, the 31 band graphic in the DRPA is a real pain to try and use compared to an analog graphic.  But the telling thing about the stated problem is that most of the trouble is very likely caused by using the auto-EQ...well known for boosting the LF out of all realistic proportion.

I'll stick with my recommendation for an analog graphic.  I'll also reiterate my considered opinion that the best use of a DRPA is to sell it and re-invest the money in an actually functional piece of sound gear.

[Tim Perry]

While technically correct, the 31 band graphic in the DRPA is a real pain to try and use compared to an analog graphic.  But the telling thing about the stated problem is that most of the trouble is very likely caused by using the auto-EQ...well known for boosting the LF out of all realistic proportion.

I'll stick with my recommendation for an analog graphic.  I'll also reiterate my considered opinion that the best use of a DRPA is to sell it and re-invest the money in an actually functional piece of sound gear.

Early on in my dabbleings with the DRPA I engaged the sub synth.  It drove a solo guitarist with 'ears' nuts. 

Make sure the sub synth is off.
Don't even bother with auto EQ.
Manually put a notch at 400 Hz and tune from there.  The room might have some weird peak or resonance...but it a pretty safe starting point.

[Nathan Vanderslice]

Here's a basic/free-ish way to find the problem:

Set all of the Driverack EQ's flat (GEQ and output PEQ's).
Using a smartphone, download a free RTA app.  (RTA Lite on iOS will work)
Reproduce the problem by having someone speak or play, or better yet, use pink noise. 
Walk around the room and see if you can "see" the offending frequency on the RTA app.  Listen in different places.
Cut that frequency on the GEQ of the Driverack.

A smartphone microphone makes for a very crude RTA mic but it should suffice to get a rough idea what's going on. 

**Edit: Keep in mind that for speech and vocals, microphone proximity effect will create a lot of "muddy" bass that may have to be adjusted on the channel EQ, not system EQ.  If possible, use pink noise for the test signal when adjusting the system EQ.  You should be able to use the pink noise generator on the Driverack without using the AutoEQ function.  If not, you can download a free pink noise generator app I'm sure.

I guess here is a good point to reply. The other church group purchased a pair of Yamaha speaker amps. There are still some "tweaks" to do but it's getting better. I set up the Samson XP 200's as monitors, and a big part of the problem has become clear. It's what I've not wanted to face the truth about, and that's that the Samson speakers stink. Both in clarity, and that they are bottom end heavy. Now, for a couple of other questions related to this. First is what is the best way to aim the speakers? I should note that there are no other alternatives to speaker placement that won't be either worse, or interfere with the material shown on the screens. Basically, what is the lesser of two evils, aiming them so that there is minimal overlap at the back of the room, or pointing them in so that minimal output is "bounced" off the walls directly? There is one other possibility, and that is to put the speakers in so that they are between the screens. I am really doubting that the group will go for that. Now, based on replies before, I have some more questions about EQ. First is whether anyone has heard of the TC electronics 1128 analyzer eq combo, and are they any good? I'm not doing too well finding any analyzers other than the ones that are with the combined 1128 units that I can afford. I looked for RTA for iPhone and found an app called "Octave" which I get the sense is in fact a 31 band EQ. Would that work well enough to get me in the right ballpark with the EQ? If I can find a PC app for pink noise, I can use the computer to generate the pink noise and manually adjust the frequencies on the DRPA. Last question (for now) is if I do use another GEQ, should I put it up, or down stream of the DRPA?

[Tim Perry]

Nathan,  while your speakers are less then stellar sound will come out and my best guess it that any of those who have responded to you could make a show happen with what you have. 

Your speakers should be placed stage left and stage right, even or slightly in front of the microphones.

The speakers should be slightly turned in but not so much that the horn is visible from any mic position.

If wireless mics are used or people wander around with long mic cables getting the speakers as high as possible and tilted down will make your job easier. The key is getting distance between mics and speakers. If you cant go wide, go up!

If you add and EQ it should be in front of the crossover (DRPA)

Nathan, wile pink noise can be handy for some situations for those starting out it has many drawbacks and pitfalls.  Even my fancy Smaart built into the the Presonus software is more trouble then its worth sometimes.

If you are trying to tame a highly reverberant room with hardware... it probably will be a futile mission.  Make sure the high pass filter is engaged for all microphones.  Roll off lows in all of the channels.

Manually set the DRPA to flat. notch 400 Hz (maybe 500)  (this usually increases clarity)  take it down 10 dB or about halfway.

Make sure you start with highs and mids of vocal mics straight up... then boost or cut mids to taste.

Go ahead and try it. What do you have to lose?

 

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