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Author Topic: DIY topboxes to match Labsubs  (Read 25194 times)

Tim Padrick

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Re: DIY topboxes to match Labsubs
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2012, 03:02:56 am »

The LAB sub is home built, but not home designed - and it was designed by someone who has a history of designing very high performance loudspeakers.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: DIY topboxes to match Labsubs
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2012, 07:27:57 am »

The LAB sub is home built, but not home designed - and it was designed by someone who has a history of designing very high performance loudspeakers.
And therein lies the key.  A good-well thought out design.

Now the end result of how well it is built is totally "open".  I have seen some labsubs that are beautiful-and others that don't come close to what the origional design was.  So they aren't the same.

It doesn't matter how good of a wood shop or what tools you have-if the DESIGN is flawed-then no matter how well you can build the box-it is still going to be wrong-or lacking in perfromance.

And the design is A LOT more than just the components used.  It is HOW they are used.  Of course good parts don't hurt-but they do not guarantee a great final result.

You can use the best of everything-but screw up the physical placement-alignment etc and it won't be as good as a "lessor" design-that is done right.

The low end is a bit "forgiving".  But as you up in freq-it gets harder and harder to "get the devices to play well together".
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Mike Price

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Re: DIY topboxes to match Labsubs
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2012, 03:24:21 pm »

A sight that I have heard good things about from their subs is Billfitzmaurice.com. They have the Omnitop 15 and it says with 8 cabs you can do 500-1000 people. Not the prettiest cabs  - but I have heard BFM subs (Titan and Tuba) and they rock pretty dang hard. Just my 2 cents - do with it what you will.
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John Chiara

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Re: DIY topboxes to match Labsubs
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2012, 04:28:18 pm »

So fill me in. You are doing shows for rave promoters with limited budgets? Around here the rave promoters are cleaning up and making huge profits. Is that not the norm? Sounds like a lot of gear for not a lot of money. Just trying to keep a watch on how the market gets sucked down so professionals can't make any money.
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Rick Powell

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Re: DIY topboxes to match Labsubs
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2012, 06:41:02 pm »

A sight that I have heard good things about from their subs is Billfitzmaurice.com. They have the Omnitop 15 and it says with 8 cabs you can do 500-1000 people. Not the prettiest cabs  - but I have heard BFM subs (Titan and Tuba) and they rock pretty dang hard. Just my 2 cents - do with it what you will.

http://billfitzmaurice.net/DR200.html  The DR200 looks to be more heavy duty than the omnitop for the OP's application.  Those "melded tweeter arrays" give me the willies, on many levels, but I have to admit I've never heard them.
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Kevin McDonough

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Re: DIY topboxes to match Labsubs
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2012, 07:42:38 pm »

http://billfitzmaurice.net/DR200.html  The DR200 looks to be more heavy duty than the omnitop for the OP's application.  Those "melded tweeter arrays" give me the willies, on many levels, but I have to admit I've never heard them.

yeah i have to admit I'm not a huge fan of BFM's designs either. Give me a proper, high quality compression driver any day rather than the line of piezo's or tweeters.

And while his site is correct in saying that they're more sensitive than "Commercial Cabs" he should really clarify that by saying a commercial reflex cab. A commercial horn loaded cab, or one of the plans I mentioned before, will be just as sensitive if not more than his design.

k
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Josh Billings

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Re: DIY topboxes to match Labsubs
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2012, 03:49:14 pm »

Long story short...what you are looking for doesn't exist.

The components inside these high SPL speakers can't be purchased for what a lot of used old tech is going for.

Look at the EAW KF850. Heavy, High SPL, Beast that will get the job done. Can probably get em for a G a piece. Community SLS980 / 960s are also great choices

Josh Billings
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kristianjohnsen

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Re: DIY topboxes to match Labsubs
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2012, 07:07:09 pm »

Aaaaah information avalanche!!!

Now we're talking.

Okay, for starters:EDM= electronic dance music.

For the last five years I've been running home built JBL SR double 18 clones (six per side) loaded with RCF L18P300 drivers with a QSC 2450 running mono to each.  On top of those I have a hodge podge of discontinued RCF cabinets, JBL M Pros, and some wood grain cabinets the origin of which I don't even know all powered by QSCs as well.  Everything has been reinforced and loaded with RCF drivers throughout. 

I'm definitely not looking to become competitive with the "big boys" by any means.  I am one of about ten systems that lurk in the party scene here in Northern California and provide our services for promoters of, dare I say, raves, with limited budgets.  I got paid $1,500 for a weekend gig once and almost passed out from joy.  This is a hobby and not really a career.  Our system, when compared to what other junk you can get booked for $800 a night, kicks a lot of butt.  I'd actually say nothing around matches our sound for the money.  It's the guys running PK rigs and selling their services for a grand a night that I want to give a run for their money pun intended.

These gigs are almost all outdoors, are usually for crowds of a couple hundred people but sometimes up to a thousand, and everything has to be ground-stacked for lack of any flying options.  Everything is nylon strapped together and held tight with faith in truck tie-downs.  It's renegade, underground, limited budget, from the heart, and fundamentally based on fun for all including me and my people.

All the music is dj based, and the genres rarely reach past the whole "bass music" movement.  I used to say dubstep, but it's gone beyond that now.  If anyone wants an example, I'd be more than happy to forward mp3 links to mixes.  Ridiculously disproportionate lows relative to highs.  The furthest I'd ever have to throw sound is about 75 feet.

I changed my opinion about never achieving Funktion One quality after my berating over thinking I could.  I'm humble and willing to admit when I'm wrong. 

I have piles of 18mm baltic birch from other cabinet projects, a nice wood shop, access to a CNC router, and time on my hands.  What I have a tough time getting my hands on is $$$$.  This just sounds like fun to me.
   
As far as helpers, I have a truck with a lift gate, a partner who has the strength of ten men, and an unlimited supply of young bass junkies to do all the heavy lifting.  The Labsubs are close to done, and I know they're heavy as heck.

I'm gonna go sift through everything everyone has suggested and move forward with more questions.  I went to speakerplans.com and nothing really seemed like what I'm envisioning, but like I keep saying, I don't know much.  I've gotten five years into this business, and now have a gig every other weekend on average over the course of the summer, so I think I'm in a good position to step it up and ask for a couple hundred more bucks a night because of my amazing new home made system.

Thanks to the constructive.  I'm just trying to learn.

Matthew, the lower-end promoters in the Northern California EDM scene are lucky to have a nice guy like you providing for them.  Taking things seriously, even when on a tight budget, takes a certain type of character.

Best of luck in your building endeavours. 

Personally, I do agree that the best bet probably is to buy some previously-toured truely A-level speakers and use some of all that elbow grease to refurbish those.
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George Dougherty

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Re: DIY topboxes to match Labsubs
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2012, 01:03:14 am »

yeah i have to admit I'm not a huge fan of BFM's designs either. Give me a proper, high quality compression driver any day rather than the line of piezo's or tweeters.

And while his site is correct in saying that they're more sensitive than "Commercial Cabs" he should really clarify that by saying a commercial reflex cab. A commercial horn loaded cab, or one of the plans I mentioned before, will be just as sensitive if not more than his design.

k
I own and run a stack of BFM's.  My two bits on them are that they're decent for what they are as long as you can live with some of the limitations.  The piezo arrays actually do sound pretty good, as long as you don't push them real hard.  That means more cabs and more output capability to keep them out of the problem area.  When they do get pushed they get a little strident and harsh, but any inexpensive compression driver does the same or worse.  What you do get out of them is incredibly tight vertical dispersion and very wide horizontal dispersion.  The problem I found with them is that they usually outpace the dispersion of the mid-bass driver.  So while you retain clarity, they get thin out to the sides.  No problems in the middle of two stacks, but it sounds weird outside way off-axis.  On the other hand, many cabs go muddy out there, so it's a trade off.
Mine are the OmniTop 12's and they're unfortunately not the latest design with the better horn and phase plug.  Supposedly those have a more even response.  I lived with melded arrays for several years and did okay until I started doing some real commercial shows.  I dropped about 4 grand on upgrading components, swapping to Beyma CD10Fe's and doing things right with the newer xti's and biamping the cabs.   Spent some real time working on the response and alignment of the cabs and with the exception of a better quality 12" driver, they're now pretty much everything I'd been looking for.  They come in around 40-45lbs each, they're small, easily stackable and decently efficient for 120Hz up.
The real killer of the family is the DR290 loaded with a high quality, high output 12" and a pair of good quality 1" compression drivers.  103-105db from about 80Hz up.  Not sure I want to deal with the larger box and heavier weight though.  Plus, at that point you're right back to where everyone's recommending here.  You could spend a ton of time building them yourself and save a few bucks and not have a very rider friendly system if you needed it, you could pay somebody to build them for you, and easily spend 1-2K per box, or you could just buy some high quality used boxes and be done with it.
Like most speakers, they're only as good as the components put into them.  For many the appeal of BFM designs are the cheap entry level options in drivers that do passably well, but the designs aren't exactly smooth in their response and need some knowledgeable work to get them into the realm of a good sounding box, which many of the cheap users aren't really up for.  Their saving grace is that so many people really don't know what good sound really is.
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Marjan Milosevic

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Re: DIY topboxes to match Labsubs
« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2012, 05:50:24 am »

If you want a top box that can match the Lab Sub and be all in a single box then you neet the Xtro box. Plenty of kick and sound great. But if you look at the cost of building it i am sure that for the same (or very close) money you can buy a second hand branded box.
To be honest for gigs of several hundred people (1000 as max) i would even go for a simple double 15 and horn.
Plenty of those boxes on the second hand market.
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Re: DIY topboxes to match Labsubs
« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2012, 05:50:24 am »


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