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Author Topic: Adequate support for fixed install of moving lights??  (Read 4945 times)

Ed Walters

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Adequate support for fixed install of moving lights??
« on: July 27, 2012, 09:09:10 am »

Caveat: I'm not a lighting guy...

A church customer (audio) of mine is having pipes hung to hang both conventional (source 4 spots) and moving (i think elation design spots) fixtures. The pipes are standard sch. 40 black pipe, but they are suspended from building steel by 1/2" threaded rod, about 4 feet down.  My gut tells me the weight is a non-issue, but that they're going to move all over the place.  Anyone have some experience with this suspension method and moving lights?
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Charlie Zureki

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Re: Adequate support for fixed install of moving lights??
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2012, 10:16:05 am »

Caveat: I'm not a lighting guy...

A church customer (audio) of mine is having pipes hung to hang both conventional (source 4 spots) and moving (i think elation design spots) fixtures. The pipes are standard sch. 40 black pipe, but they are suspended from building steel by 1/2" threaded rod, about 4 feet down.  My gut tells me the weight is a non-issue, but that they're going to move all over the place.  Anyone have some experience with this suspension method and moving lights?

   Hello,

    For anyone to give an accurate opinion regarding hanging or rigging any items, they'd have to physically be on location.   But, I will say that hanging a pipe from threaded rod to accommodate lighting "fixtures" is common.....  but, whether the structural integrity of the hang, the proper rigging hardware and methods is going to be used is not necessarily a how-to subject for a forum.

  I would hope (and recommend) that they hire someone with documented rigging experience.

   Good Luck,
   Hammer
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DanGlass

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Re: Adequate support for fixed install of moving lights??
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2012, 11:08:36 am »

1/2" thread will do just fine as long as you have enough points across the pipe to 1) support the load evenly, and 2) keep the pipe rigid when the moving lights are in action.  Having both convetional lights and movers on the same pipe can be a challenge if the pipe is able to move.  I couldn't tell you how many you need without being on site to look at what your hanging as well as where you are hanging from.
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duane massey

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Re: Adequate support for fixed install of moving lights??
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2012, 03:31:58 am »

48" drop will sway a little bit. I normally use pipe instead of threaded rod, or add some sort of stiffeners, depending upon the actual ceiling structure.
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Duane Massey
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Ed Walters

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Re: Adequate support for fixed install of moving lights??
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2012, 05:36:43 am »

   Hello,

    For anyone to give an accurate opinion regarding hanging or rigging any items, they'd have to physically be on location.   But, I will say that hanging a pipe from threaded rod to accommodate lighting "fixtures" is common.....  but, whether the structural integrity of the hang, the proper rigging hardware and methods is going to be used is not necessarily a how-to subject for a forum.

  I would hope (and recommend) that they hire someone with documented rigging experience.

   Good Luck,
   Hammer


Totally agree regarding a forum (any forum) not being a how-to on rigging, but I'm not looking for how to do it... It's already done, by their electrical contractor.  What I'm looking for is an educated guess from someone who uses moving lights as to whether it will sway all over ... I don't use or rig moving lights so I can't make said Educated guess...
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Charlie Zureki

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Re: Adequate support for fixed install of moving lights??
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2012, 08:49:17 am »


Totally agree regarding a forum (any forum) not being a how-to on rigging, but I'm not looking for how to do it... It's already done, by their electrical contractor.  What I'm looking for is an educated guess from someone who uses moving lights as to whether it will sway all over ... I don't use or rig moving lights so I can't make said Educated guess...


  Hello,

    Ok...it's going to sway a little bit.  But, since you're not sure as to the exact makes and models of the fixtures..... as to how much it will sway, will depend on the make and model of the moving fixtures, possibly the types of fixture/ pipe clamps used, the length of the pipe, the amount and spacing of the hanging brackets and support rods, how well the hardware is tightened,  etc...

   I wouldn't worry too much about the swing, most of the newer fixtures are pretty well balanced . If you do experience a noticible swing, have the contractor add some bracing.

  Hammer 
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Ed Walters

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Re: Adequate support for fixed install of moving lights??
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2012, 09:22:40 am »


  Hello,

    Ok...it's going to sway a little bit.  But, since you're not sure as to the exact makes and models of the fixtures..... as to how much it will sway, will depend on the make and model of the moving fixtures, possibly the types of fixture/ pipe clamps used, the length of the pipe, the amount and spacing of the hanging brackets and support rods, how well the hardware is tightened,  etc...

   I wouldn't worry too much about the swing, most of the newer fixtures are pretty well balanced . If you do experience a noticible swing, have the contractor add some bracing.

  Hammer

Well, last night the church's lighting guy hung the first mover. He turned it on and it went thru its power on sequence, where it finds "home".  The nice tiny holes in the drywall ceiling became four inch slashes. I guess it moved around some. Contractor is due back today to do it right.   

Feeling somewhat vindicated....because I shared my concern with their people and was poo-pooed.

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duane massey

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Re: Adequate support for fixed install of moving lights??
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2012, 10:22:37 am »

If it made 4" slashes I suspect there is more threaded rod above the drywall. This would make sense if the actual structure that the rod is attached to is spaced above the drywall, and I'll guess it is a fairly large space (3' or more?) to work a 4" slash that quickly. Definitely need stiffening, AND I strongly suggest checking the hardware to ensure they used locking nuts. I have seen several instances where the contractor-provided structure was 1/2" rod with standard hex nuts and no lock washers. I routinely use "nylock" nuts.
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Duane Massey
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Ed Walters

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Re: Adequate support for fixed install of moving lights??
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2012, 01:56:19 pm »

If it made 4" slashes I suspect there is more threaded rod above the drywall. This would make sense if the actual structure that the rod is attached to is spaced above the drywall, and I'll guess it is a fairly large space (3' or more?) to work a 4" slash that quickly. Definitely need stiffening, AND I strongly suggest checking the hardware to ensure they used locking nuts. I have seen several instances where the contractor-provided structure was 1/2" rod with standard hex nuts and no lock washers. I routinely use "nylock" nuts.

There's four plus feet of rod above the drywall. I haven't yet seen what their remedy is, but if I had to fix it, there would be more than one rod going straight up at each end...rather two, in a V, down to pipe, so it cannot move / is triangulated. Re. Nylocks; I prefer prevailing torque fasteners (distorted threads, usually oval shaped) rather than depending on plastic. Hey, I've been known to drill things and install roll pins, with lots of Locktite 271, too, just to be absolutely certain it was NEVER going to turn....  But I'm not in charge on this one.
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DanGlass

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Re: Adequate support for fixed install of moving lights??
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2012, 06:47:29 am »

Ed,
With 4' of thread rod going above the drywall I would seriously look at how it is attached at the top.  If it is going all the way up to the roof truss than chances are that they have used a side loading beam clamp.  I have seen these clamps used the wrong way all the time and in your instance it could prove deadly.  The side loading clamp attaches to a roof truss beam by sliding over one edge of the beam and then a screw is tightened down to hold it on place. These are typically used for hanging sprinkler pipes and similar pipes.  They are real convienent because they have a threaded hole for a half inch bolt and easily accept thread rod.  IF this is how they attached the thread rod then as the fixtures moves it WILL cause the clamp to loosen and slide off, after that gravity takes over.  These clamps are only designed to hold a "static" (stationary) load and not a "dynamic" (moving) load.  I really hope this is not how they did it and that someone with experience (entertainment rigging) is getting involved.  None of us want to read your next update post starting with "It all came crashing down".  Be safe.
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Re: Adequate support for fixed install of moving lights??
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2012, 06:47:29 am »


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