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Author Topic: 4 JBL MRX528s VS 2 JBL SRX728S  (Read 21334 times)

g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: 4 JBL MRX528s VS 2 JBL SRX728S
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2012, 11:27:27 am »

The main goal is for overall better sounding bass........... I would think that the SRX would also be louder as well but I may be wrong.

So louder is better?  I think there's more to it than that.......and not just your choice of speakers.

Start with the quality and appropriateness of the initial signal being fed into the system.  Proceed step by step through the signal chain.  The output end of the chain is probably the wrong end to start "fixing".
« Last Edit: July 12, 2012, 11:29:16 am by dick rees »
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Andrew Brubaker

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Re: 4 JBL MRX528s VS 2 JBL SRX728S
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2012, 11:30:31 am »

Those are 1kHz ratings and hopefully you don't run 1kHz to your subs, so the actual ratings in your use would be a little less in both cases.  But just using those numbers and the published sensitivity gives 130dB per MRX528S and 136dB per SRX728S, so if you compare two MRX528S boxes right next to each other so that they acoustically couple to a single SRX728S it's basically a wash.  However, the SRX728S boxes would be running closer to their and the amps' limits meaning the practical output in some usage might turn out to be a bit lower.  But that is just the calculated output level and not the preceived loudness.

A wash in which's favor? The MRX would be better or the SRX? I realize that calculated output vs perceived loudness may be different from each other. I would rather have the perceived loudness be higher. For the applications that I use the subs for I need hard hitting and punchy bass that will carry well and that will be felt well. I think that is one of the things that I am not very impressed with the MRX about. You can hear the bass pretty well but they do not hit very low or very tight. They are fine for lower level applications but when I need hard hitting bass for dance music or to really feel the kick drum they leave something to be desired. Plus I think that I will have more versatility with the horizontal shape of the SRX over the vertical of the MRX. I am open to check out other subs as well if people have some opinions as to other subs I should be looking into.  :)
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Andrew Brubaker

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Re: 4 JBL MRX528s VS 2 JBL SRX728S
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2012, 11:37:08 am »

So louder is better?  I think there's more to it than that.......and not just your choice of speakers.

Start with the quality and appropriateness of the initial signal being fed into the system.  Proceed step by step through the signal chain.  The output end of the chain is probably the wrong end to start "fixing".

The signal that I have coming in is at the desired gain level and I don't have any issues with the sound through the mains. When I add in the LF extension of the subs though the low end is a little muddy and leaves some to be desired. I typically run the subs on an aux and only put them on certain instruments that would need that more beefy low end that my mains can't hit very well. I have adjusted my crossover settings several times as well to get a tighter response from the subs and I have seen some improvement but am still not satisfied with the end result.
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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: 4 JBL MRX528s VS 2 JBL SRX728S
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2012, 11:45:39 am »

The signal that I have coming in is at the desired gain level and I don't have any issues with the sound through the mains. When I add in the LF extension of the subs though the low end is a little muddy and leaves some to be desired. I typically run the subs on an aux and only put them on certain instruments that would need that more beefy low end that my mains can't hit very well. I have adjusted my crossover settings several times as well to get a tighter response from the subs and I have seen some improvement but am still not satisfied with the end result.

I'm still not sure you're taking into account all the various factors involved in reproducing the sound.  You say that you have the desired gain level, but what does it sound like coming in?  If you're getting mud in LF, it may well be mud coming in from the tone settings on the bass.

Are you taking a DI feed from the bass before it hits the amp?  Are you taking a direct feed out of the bass amp?  Are you miking the amp?  Any or all of the above?  You say that it sounds OK in the mains but not when you start adding the subs.  The clarity and punch is up in the mains, so it should sound OK.  The "fat meat" is down in the subs and switching subs will probably make something of a change, but the balance between the subs and the tops, the ability of the tops to keep up with the change in subs, the crossover point, any compression or other processing and so on must be taken into consideration.  Change one thing, you change everything.

The fact is that there's not a lot of "hard center" LF down in the subs range to begin with.  The "tightness" of the LF tends to lie above what the subs are doing.....which is to support the sound from below.  Simply adding more bottom end will not help the clarity or punch of the bass guitar if the input contains a lot of ill-defined LF to begin with.  GIGO.

Your quest may be righteous, but don't focus strictly on the output.  You have to sort out and understand what you're being given to put out.........
« Last Edit: July 12, 2012, 11:55:53 am by dick rees »
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Andrew Brubaker

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Re: 4 JBL MRX528s VS 2 JBL SRX728S
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2012, 11:55:32 am »

I'm still not sure you're taking into account all the various factors involved in reproducing the sound.  You say that you have the desired gain level, but what does it sound like coming in?  If you're getting mud in LF, it may well be mud coming in from the tone settings on the bass.

Are you taking a DI feed from the bass before it hits the amp?  Are you taking a direct feed out of the bass amp?  Are you miking the amp?  Any or all of the above?

I am mostly speaking in generalities at this point. Since I do some DJing where the input is coming from a set source where the levels are set to nominal and I am not changing the EQ of what is coming in the difference would lie with how it is being reproduced. When doing bass guitar I often mic the cab and may also use a DI to assist the overall sound. I prefer to mic because what is coming out of the bass amp is most likely the tone that the bass player is wanting to be heard anyways. I try to have most of my faders around nominal though obviously slight variances occur. The gain is typically set so that at the loudest input coming in the meters are not clipping.

I hope I am making sense!  :o
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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: 4 JBL MRX528s VS 2 JBL SRX728S
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2012, 11:57:10 am »

I am mostly speaking in generalities at this point. Since I do some DJing where the input is coming from a set source where the levels are set to nominal and I am not changing the EQ of what is coming in the difference would lie with how it is being reproduced. When doing bass guitar I often mic the cab and may also use a DI to assist the overall sound. I prefer to mic because what is coming out of the bass amp is most likely the tone that the bass player is wanting to be heard anyways. I try to have most of my faders around nominal though obviously slight variances occur. The gain is typically set so that at the loudest input coming in the meters are not clipping.

I hope I am making sense!  :o

The tone the bass player hears on stage has nothing to do with getting it to sit in the mix out in the "house".  You need what you need, not what the bass player hears on stage.
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Andrew Brubaker

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Re: 4 JBL MRX528s VS 2 JBL SRX728S
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2012, 01:27:18 pm »

The tone the bass player hears on stage has nothing to do with getting it to sit in the mix out in the "house".  You need what you need, not what the bass player hears on stage.

True. And I make sure to adjust for the difference in tone that I want coming through FOH. My main quest on the subs isn't as much for the actual bass as it is for a sub that is hard hitting and punchy. Something that is really good for kick and dance type music as well.
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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: 4 JBL MRX528s VS 2 JBL SRX728S
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2012, 01:32:04 pm »

True. And I make sure to adjust for the difference in tone that I want coming through FOH. My main quest on the subs isn't as much for the actual bass as it is for a sub that is hard hitting and punchy. Something that is really good for kick and dance type music as well.

Again, what you put into it does make a difference.  You may well benefit from Mr Chiaras favorite "Transient Designer" to tailor your low end.  I occasionally use the envelope mode on a TCE IIIC or more often just engage the "punch" feature on my Drawmer MX40.

A sub can't give you something you don't put in.
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Brad Weber

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Re: 4 JBL MRX528s VS 2 JBL SRX728S
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2012, 06:59:38 am »

A wash in which's favor? The MRX would be better or the SRX?
That meant that based on their specs they would have essentially the same output, however with the SRX both the amps and speakers would seem to be operating closer to their limits.
 
Bass that is "hard hitting", "punchy", "tighter" and "carry well" can also often relate to frequencies at or above a typical sub to main crossover.  Just curious, but what have you done to optimize the processing in the XTi for your current system?[/quote]
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Andrew Brubaker

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Re: 4 JBL MRX528s VS 2 JBL SRX728S
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2012, 05:26:24 pm »

Quote
Just curious, but what have you done to optimize the processing in the XTi for your current system?

I'll have to look back at my crossover settings. I haven't done anything to the EQ. I believe I have the mains dropping around 60-70 as their frequency response is down to 57 if I remember correctly. I think I have my subs around 120 on the top end and 35-40 on the low end though I don't remember the amount of decibel drop at each frequency. I just know that after this thread I went back through and redid all my crossovers to utilize and be near what the frequency response of the speakers and subs are rated for.

I am still debating about the SRX because I like the lower frequency response that that would give me but I still have yet to see a real world usage unfortunately.
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Re: 4 JBL MRX528s VS 2 JBL SRX728S
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2012, 05:26:24 pm »


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